Winning "Spirit" here.

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rookiepilot
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Winning "Spirit" here.

Post by rookiepilot »

https://www.foxnews.com/us/spirit-airli ... k-incident

No swat team this time. Just a tough Captain showing off for the FA's.
Well done! Kick their A--!

Kicking an entire family off a flight is a very big deal.

I think as captain you'd better be absolutely perfect on your facts before you do it. Maybe there is more to the story, maybe not.

I've never flown as a commercial pilot but I've flown a number of special needs people including children as a volunteer pilot to medical appointments.

It takes patience and more patience.
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ayseven
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Re: Winning "Spirit" here.

Post by ayseven »

Well, the captain is the boss. There is probably more to it.
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Heliian
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Re: Winning "Spirit" here.

Post by Heliian »

it's spirit airlines, get in, buckle up and shut up. Budget carrier.

I can feel the entitlement bleeding from the article. The family just had to take a trip for passover with a 2 year old and a pregnant wife and their special needs child.
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Sharklasers
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Re: Winning "Spirit" here.

Post by Sharklasers »

rookiepilot wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:54 pm https://www.foxnews.com/us/spirit-airli ... k-incident

No swat team this time. Just a tough Captain showing off for the FA's.
Well done! Kick their A--!

Kicking an entire family off a flight is a very big deal.

I think as captain you'd better be absolutely perfect on your facts before you do it. Maybe there is more to the story, maybe not.

I've never flown as a commercial pilot but I've flown a number of special needs people including children as a volunteer pilot to medical appointments.

It takes patience and more patience.

Its pretty clear you have never flown as the captain of a commerical airliner. Maybe there is more to the story or maybe there isnt but if one of the bitter cookie shooters comes up and demands someone gets off they are off. I will ask if theres a way to prevent this and ask if there is a better solution but I have bigger fish to fry up front than go back and play investigator in the back. Not to mention the liability and exposer i open myself up to by going back and wadng into that boondoggle. I had a good chuckle at the video of the united FA wrestling the passenger over the stroller from a few years ago, if you watch closely youll see the captain slink backwards into the cockpit when he realized he really didnt want to be tied to that goat rodeo. Ill leave the investigation to the FA manager after the dust settles. You need to remember that the captain only hears what the FA tells him. In the 321 I might be sitting 100 feet and 210 people away from all the action and if they are telling me someone is being disruptive and a threat i am obliged to believe them.
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Gino Under
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Re: Winning "Spirit" here.

Post by Gino Under »

Isn't that an interesting comment, "I have bigger fish to fry up front than go back and play investigator in the back".

Actually, the Captain is a Peace Officer as defined in our Criminal Code, so any disturbance onboard IS your 'baby' whether you're frying fish or not. It's too easy to request that a volunteer, a sky marshall, or simply appointing an ABP to handle disturbances outside the flight deck when required. You'll find some light reading in the Criminal Code of Canada explaining the Captain's powers as a Peace Officer, in case anyone's interested. Any airline Captain in Canada should already know this and what it actually means.

A word of advice though, in Canada, calling the police isn't likely to help a lot as the aircraft while attached to the bridge is not considered a public place. So you'll have to escort the family off the aircraft for the local police to investigate. If the airline doesn't wish to press charges and only want police to remove the passengers, the police will likely walk away. They won't do the airline's dirty work because it's a civil matter between the passenger(s) and the airline. Not an indictable offence under the Criminal Code (aviation falls under Federal Law) of Canada. Besides, airlines rarely press charges against their passengers.

In the United States it's a friggin' free for all so all bets are off. Common sense and legalities don't seem to apply in many of the cases I've read .

Gino Under
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Re: Winning "Spirit" here.

Post by rookiepilot »

Heliian wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:03 am

I can feel the entitlement bleeding from the article. The family just had to take a trip for passover with a 2 year old and a pregnant wife and their special needs child.
Your post speaks volumes, that a passenger expecting a service paid for, is considered entitlement!

A pregnant wife, 2 year old and special needs child doesn't degrade any reasonable expectation of this, unless the airline, in advance, stated they aren't flying those categories of passengers. Why and when they flew, is their business and nothing to do with anything. You imply this kind of family is "too much work".

If there is more to the story, that would obviously change it. I'm taking the article at face value.

Airlines are in the customer service business, all kinds of travelers.

Captain is in command. Should directly be involved before passengers are kicked off IMO, particularly when children are involved. That's a big deal.

There is always cargo for those who can't stand Pax.
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Re: Winning "Spirit" here.

Post by Sharklasers »

Gino Under wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:12 am Isn't that an interesting comment, "I have bigger fish to fry up front than go back and play investigator in the back".

Actually, the Captain is a Peace Officer as defined in our Criminal Code, so any disturbance onboard IS your 'baby' whether you're frying fish or not. It's too easy to request that a volunteer, a sky marshall, or simply appointing an ABP to handle disturbances outside the flight deck when required. You'll find some light reading in the Criminal Code of Canada explaining the Captain's powers as a Peace Officer, in case anyone's interested. Any airline Captain in Canada should already know this and what it actually means.

A word of advice though, in Canada, calling the police isn't likely to help a lot as the aircraft while attached to the bridge is not considered a public place. So you'll have to escort the family off the aircraft for the local police to investigate. If the airline doesn't wish to press charges and only want police to remove the passengers, the police will likely walk away. They won't do the airline's dirty work because it's a civil matter between the passenger(s) and the airline. Not an indictable offence under the Criminal Code (aviation falls under Federal Law) of Canada. Besides, airlines rarely press charges against their passengers.

In the United States it's a friggin' free for all so all bets are off. Common sense and legalities don't seem to apply in many of the cases I've read .

Gino Under

Your point is absurd.
Why would I vacate the cockpit thus creating a serious security hazard to wade to the back of the aircraft when I could just utilize my resources as laid out in my company operations manual and the rules of common sense to address an issue like this? If I wanted to play cop I would have become a police officer. A word of experience to you, in Canada despite what you may tell yourself the airport police have less than 0 issue coming onto an aircraft and removing disruptive passengers. Once a passenger refuses a request to vacate the aircraft they are now trespassing and are the cops problem Any pilot who’s been doing this long enough will tell you they have had to use police to remove a passenger or are close to someone who has. Do you know how many pilots I know in a 705 operation who have had to drag a pax off themselves? 0.
You tell yourself whatever you want though... I’m just telling you how it actually happens.
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Re: Winning "Spirit" here.

Post by Goodman5 »

Gino do we receive training to deescalate face-to-face with passengers? No.

The FA’s do though.

Any Captain these days knows this and respects that. The moment you hop out your seat and play peace officer (which you have no training for) you completely undermine your back-end crew.
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Re: Winning "Spirit" here.

Post by Sharklasers »

Goodman5 wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:05 pm Gino do we receive training to deescalate face-to-face with passengers? No.

The FA’s do though.

Any Captain these days knows this and respects that. The moment you hop out your seat and play peace officer (which you have no training for) you completely undermine your back-end crew.

You bring up a good point I never even touched on. Even if i *suspected* my service director was part of the problem what the hell am i supposed to do with that? Set the brakes and scrub the flight? Thats all for management to sort out in the end. Lets look back at that poor westjet captain who brought the pax up to the flight deck to try a play peace maker, the thanks he got for that was his face plastered all over the cbc.
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Re: Winning "Spirit" here.

Post by altiplano »

Use your resources. You're at the gate. No need to wade into it and micromanage every disruption... Spirit too, lots of drama no doubt day in, day out.

That aside though... this is the result of absurd policies surrounding masks and covid... we don't need a capital case made when you can't keep up a mask on your kid, or yourself for that matter. Everyone make your best effort, keep calm, and carry on... society are losing their heads over stupid shlt with insignificant risk factors.
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Re: Winning "Spirit" here.

Post by flying4dollars »

Heliian wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:03 am it's spirit airlines, get in, buckle up and shut up. Budget carrier.

I can feel the entitlement bleeding from the article. The family just had to take a trip for passover with a 2 year old and a pregnant wife and their special needs child.
I really don't understand the ignorance that comes with thinking because it's a low cost airline, you're expected to "sit down, buckle up and shut up" as heliian so eloquently put it. As if flagship airlines haven't had incidents like this? Do I need to remind you of the doctor dragged off a United flight?

Seriously bud :roll:
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Re: Winning "Spirit" here.

Post by simply_no_one »

Heliian wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:03 am it's spirit airlines, get in, buckle up and shut up. Budget carrier.

I know a number of pilots who fly for Spirit, and it's nothing but a great place to work with professionals.

How they cram people into the seats has zero bearing on how the flight crews would act. Including the Flight Attendants.

Have a little bit of respect for your fellow aviation professionals.
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Re: Winning "Spirit" here.

Post by Gino Under »

If what you say is true I owe you an apology because things, especially when it comes to the law, change over time.

Gino
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Last edited by Gino Under on Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Winning "Spirit" here.

Post by simply_no_one »

Goodman5 wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:05 pm Gino do we receive training to deescalate face-to-face with passengers? No.

The FA’s do though.

Any Captain these days knows this and respects that. The moment you hop out your seat and play peace officer (which you have no training for) you completely undermine your back-end crew.
EXACTLY. I may not be a Captain right now, but during my time at the regionals in the left seat I always left the discretion up to the FAs and backed up what they said. Always. I will only get involved if things become physical or seem like they may at any moment. In ten years that's happened once.

The rest of the time it's the FAs call, as they are the ones who have to deal with the passengers on the flight.
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Re: Winning "Spirit" here.

Post by rookiepilot »

This is why some don't respect airlines, and public opinion isn't on their side. They publicly shame their passengers on social media -- and get it wrong. Classless.

Spirit tweeted blaming the adult passengers, then deleted it after video evidence proved them wrong.


https://www.foxnews.com/us/spirit-tweet ... mask-video
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Re: Winning "Spirit" here.

Post by Heliian »

simply_no_one wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:41 pm
Heliian wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:03 am it's spirit airlines, get in, buckle up and shut up. Budget carrier.

I know a number of pilots who fly for Spirit, and it's nothing but a great place to work with professionals.

How they cram people into the seats has zero bearing on how the flight crews would act. Including the Flight Attendants.

Have a little bit of respect for your fellow aviation professionals.
I'm talking about the pax, the crew is just trying to do their job. The traveling public in general are bad enough to deal with. It makes it worse when compounded with the added rules and of course it's America, their rights and freedoms give them a pass on acting like children?

It's their God given right to travel for a religious holiday while thousands die everyday there from covid. I think they're morons and making their plight public doesn't convince me they were in the right.
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Re: Winning "Spirit" here.

Post by RedAndWhiteBaron »

Heliian wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:13 am I'm talking about the pax, the crew is just trying to do their job. The traveling public in general are bad enough to deal with. It makes it worse when compounded with the added rules and of course it's America, their rights and freedoms give them a pass on acting like children?

It's their God given right to travel for a religious holiday while thousands die everyday there from covid. I think they're morons and making their plight public doesn't convince me they were in the right.
I think the crew on that flight were morons for requiring a two year old to wear a mask while eating, let alone the inhumanity of forcing a babe in arms to comply with a directive they can't possibly understand.

That said though, once they were asked to leave, they should have. They're as likely to change the crew's decision as they are to convince a cop to not arrest them once he/she has decided too. Not going to happen. This should have been dealt with later.
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Re: Winning "Spirit" here.

Post by digits_ »

RedAndWhiteBaron wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:39 pm
Heliian wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:13 am I'm talking about the pax, the crew is just trying to do their job. The traveling public in general are bad enough to deal with. It makes it worse when compounded with the added rules and of course it's America, their rights and freedoms give them a pass on acting like children?

It's their God given right to travel for a religious holiday while thousands die everyday there from covid. I think they're morons and making their plight public doesn't convince me they were in the right.
I think the crew on that flight were morons for requiring a two year old to wear a mask while eating, let alone the inhumanity of forcing a babe in arms to comply with a directive they can't possibly understand.

That said though, once they were asked to leave, they should have. They're as likely to change the crew's decision as they are to convince a cop to not arrest them once he/she has decided too. Not going to happen. This should have been dealt with later.
If the info is correct, they were allowed to reboard, so looks like someone at the company changed their mind...
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Re: Winning "Spirit" here.

Post by PostmasterGeneral »

rookiepilot wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:54 pm I've never flown as a commercial pilot but...
Then don’t speak on something you know nothing about.
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Re: Winning "Spirit" here.

Post by Back2Final »

I thought 2 and older you need your own seat? Sitting on a pregnant woman's lap doesn't look safe and is more of a issue than the mask. I'm not up to speed on current rules...just trying to use common sense.
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