United Airlines hiring goals

[photofly]

The reproductive system and the associated hormones provide direction towards reproduction and caring for children. For most women, competing with men is not something that they are inclined to do naturally.

You're not helping your cause. On a side note, why is being competitive a helpful trait for an airline pilot? I want my pilots cooperative and risk-averse. Don't you?

Forcing people against their nature is cruelty and abuse.

Yes, it would actually be cruel and abusive to encourage women to be pilots. Keep going.

You failed to read between the lines. They aren't so much "boosting" diversity as they are eliminating White men from the industry.

When the proportion of white men in the cockpit drops to 7%, you'll have a valid point.

[Inverted2]

I’m sure there will be lots of women lining up to be pilots now. Between the unemployment over the past year, and irregular hours while you are working and being away from your family for extended periods what’s not to like?

[Inverted2]

Plus the days of college to airline are gone for a while. The appeal of living in northern communities is appealing as is the crappy starting pay at airlines. Of course you can experience the joys of commuting if you can’t afford to live in one of major cities airlines base you in.

[ReserveTank]

You're not helping your cause. On a side note, why is being competitive a helpful trait for an airline pilot? I want my pilots cooperative and risk-averse. Don't you?

You completely missed the point. It's about nature. Women are generally repulsed at the idea of "bringing home the bacon." Your Western psychology notwithstanding, they have to be convinced (tricked, really) into such an undertaking.

Yes, it would actually be cruel and abusive to encourage women to be pilots. Keep going.

Why do you want it for them so badly? They don't even want it. Stats. You gonna deny numbers?

When the proportion of white men in the cockpit drops to 7%, you'll have a valid point.

"DO NOT PAIR" down to 93%, then. Doing my part.

Don't get too cocky, the government isn't going to send cheques forever.

[rookiepilot]

More importantly, the group whose behaviour needs to change is airline management, driven by public demand. And it looks like it is. Existing pilots are not going to be asked about it, nor should they. Their opinion is irrelevant.

Covers it well.

[photofly]

You completely missed the point. It's about nature. Women are generally repulsed at the idea of "bringing home the bacon."

Any sentence written by a man that begins "Women are generally...." is 100% guaranteed to be a humdinger which tells you nothing about women and everything about the man who writes it. Yours is not an exception.

Why do you want it for them so badly?

I'd like the people who fill well paid and responsible jobs to reflect society around them. I think diversity is a moral good. If there's a way to achieve it I think it should be explored.

[ant_321]

Hire the best person for the job. Period. Who cares what their gender or colour is. We should be striving for equal opportunity, not equal outcome. If you want to attract a more diverse people into a particular job do it at the grass routes level, not in preferential hiring practices.

[simply_no_one]

Hire the best person for the job. Period. Who cares what their gender or colour is. We should be striving for equal opportunity, not equal outcome. If you want to attract a more diverse people into a particular job do it at the grass routes level, not in preferential hiring practices.

Exactly.

[ReserveTank]

Any sentence written by a man that begins "Women are generally...." is 100% guaranteed to be a humdinger which tells you nothing about women and everything about the man who writes it. Yours is not an exception.

You're denying nature, and therefore, science. Like most Western men, you are uneducated on the basics of humans and the differences of the sexes.

I'd like the people who fill well paid and responsible jobs to reflect society around them.

Our society has been steadily devolving for the past 60 years. You'll certainly reap the reflection of society that you seek.

I think diversity is a moral good. If there's a way to achieve it I think it should be explored.

Diversity's real meaning is forcing people into positions that they weren't qualified for or didn't desire in the first place. One way diversity is achieved is through lowering/eliminating testing standards.
There is no doubt that the state will achieve it-They are way beyond the exploration phase. It's only news to you now.

Of course, what you're failing to mention is what effect booting White guys from an industry will have:

Severely lowered wages
Extreme competition for few open jobs
Reduction/elimination of benefits
Return of loose or even abusive contract language

You know, all those things that terrible Whitey fought against.

You see, it's not about diversity and moral good. It's about resetting the clock on working conditions so that every pilot can work like an Amazon distribution centre slave or an Uber driver. The oligarchy has already firmly established through decades of trial and error that diversity is the way to create a slave class. So what you're promoting is indeed abusive to women and...diverse people. It's slavery, the very thing you believe that you're against.

As I've said, it's all psychology, and you've been tricked.

[photofly]

. Like most Western men, you are uneducated on the basics of humans and the differences of the sexes.

One of us is, for sure.

Of course, what you're failing to mention is what effect booting White guys from an industry will have:

Severely lowered wages
Extreme competition for few open jobs
Reduction/elimination of benefits
Return of loose or even abusive contract language

I am broadly in favour of those things happening, on the way to "airline pilot" becoming a thing of the past, like "underground coal miner". Jobs monitoring complex machinery that are better operated by computer need to vanish.

You see, it's not about diversity and moral good. It's about resetting the clock on working conditions so that every pilot can work like an Amazon distribution centre slave or an Uber driver. The oligarchy has already firmly established through decades of trial and error that diversity is the way to create a slave class. So what you're promoting is indeed abusive to women and...diverse people. It's slavery, the very thing you believe that you're against.

As I've said, it's all psychology, and you've been tricked.

No I haven't been tricked. I disagree with your premise that diversity means slavery: but your end point is correct, and I support it. Then you can all find something more productive to do. I don't feel any responsibility to protect what you think is important.

However, for as long as being an airline pilot is a well paid and respected job, I would like my daughter to have the same access to it as a career as my son; without the extra hurdle of being the only woman in her ground school class, the only woman on the type rating course, and the only worman in the flight deck.

[photofly]

Hire the best person for the job. Period. Who cares what their gender or colour is. We should be striving for equal opportunity, not equal outcome. If you want to attract a more diverse people into a particular job do it at the grass routes level, not in preferential hiring practices.

For as long as 93% of airline pilots are men, the opportunities simply cannot be equal.

[digits_]

However, for as long as being an airline pilot is a well paid and respected job, I would like my daughter to have the same access to it as a career as my son; without the extra hurdle of being the only woman in her ground school class, the only woman on the type rating course, and the only worman in the flight deck.

She already has. Why is being the only (fe)male in a class a hurdle?

[montado]

However, for as long as being an airline pilot is a well paid and respected job, I would like my daughter to have the same access to it as a career as my son; without the extra hurdle of being the only woman in her ground school class, the only woman on the type rating course, and the only worman in the flight deck.

She already has. Why is being the only (fe)male in a class a hurdle?

All other things equal, Photofly's daughter has a better shot at being an airline pilot than the son.

[ant_321]

Hire the best person for the job. Period. Who cares what their gender or colour is. We should be striving for equal opportunity, not equal outcome. If you want to attract a more diverse people into a particular job do it at the grass routes level, not in preferential hiring practices.

For as long as 93% of airline pilots are men, the opportunities simply cannot be equal.

They aren’t equal. Women have more opportunities. My wife who is an airline pilot would agree with me.

[photofly]

However, for as long as being an airline pilot is a well paid and respected job, I would like my daughter to have the same access to it as a career as my son; without the extra hurdle of being the only woman in her ground school class, the only woman on the type rating course, and the only worman in the flight deck.

She already has.

Sadly, not. If she did, we’d already have 50% female airline pilots.

Why is being the only (fe)male in a class a hurdle?

Because for as long as she’s the only woman, everything she does and achieves is about being the sole female. If she succeeds, it’s because as a woman she has to work harder than the men. If she fails, it’s because women aren’t as good as men. For as long as there’s only one woman around, she’s both an unwilling representative and an oddity, and that’s stressful.

Read some testimonies from black students who were the only visible minority in their classes. I’ll try to find you some.

[ReserveTank]

. Like most Western men, you are uneducated on the basics of humans and the differences of the sexes.

One of us is, for sure.

Of course, what you're failing to mention is what effect booting White guys from an industry will have:

Severely lowered wages
Extreme competition for few open jobs
Reduction/elimination of benefits
Return of loose or even abusive contract language

I am broadly in favour of those things happening, on the way to "airline pilot" becoming a thing of the past, like "underground coal miner". Jobs monitoring complex machinery that are better operated by computer need to vanish.

You see, it's not about diversity and moral good. It's about resetting the clock on working conditions so that every pilot can work like an Amazon distribution centre slave or an Uber driver. The oligarchy has already firmly established through decades of trial and error that diversity is the way to create a slave class. So what you're promoting is indeed abusive to women and...diverse people. It's slavery, the very thing you believe that you're against.

As I've said, it's all psychology, and you've been tricked.

No I haven't been tricked. I disagree with your premise that diversity means slavery: but your end point is correct, and I support it. Then you can all find something more productive to do. I don't feel any responsibility to protect what you think is important.

However, for as long as being an airline pilot is a well paid and respected job, I would like my daughter to have the same access to it as a career as my son; without the extra hurdle of being the only woman in her ground school class, the only woman on the type rating course, and the only worman in the flight deck.

In one sentence, you want the profession to go away, in another, you want to uphold it for the sole purpose of diversity. The psychology of the ideology is apparent.
Yes, you've been had. Don't feel bad, it took the hard left the better part of 15 years to get its apparatchiks to go pro-corporate. The good news is that you're going to get what you want. I hope that your province turns into the DRC, as you see morally good and fit.

She already has. Why is being the only (fe)male in a class a hurdle?

I had the same question. Diversity makes it to class, yet still oppressed. What a mess of contradiction.

[ReserveTank]

Because for as long as she’s the only woman, everything she does and achieves is about being the sole female.

Well, now hold on...she's in there with all that diversity. Are you saying that her struggle is more than theirs? You best get familiar with the hierarchy of first-world social grievances.

[photofly]

I’m sorry - I didn’t follow your last comment. Please explain what you mean.

If she’s in there with a class of entirely while men apart from her, how is she in there with “all that diversity”? She is in fact in there with no diversity at all. That’s not good.

Nor is it good for all the other women who might sign up for ground school but look ahead and say to themselves, thanks, but I don’t want to be the only woman in my class. I can’t see a way forward for myself when every pilot I see is a man. I think I’ll do something else instead.

Uniformity breeds uniformity. Do you think diversity is just plain unimportant, or are you actively opposed to it? It’s hard to tell. You can’t possibly be dumb enough to think it will just happen on its own.

[shimmydampner]

Nor is it good for all the other women who might sign up for ground school but look ahead and say to themselves, thanks, but I don’t want to be the only woman in my class. I can’t see a way forward for myself when every pilot I see is a man. I think I’ll do something else instead.

Amidst all the high-volume virtue signaling, this is a point that I can actually buy. And (even as a white, middle aged man) my instinct is that it may hold even more true for a person of colour. I mean, it's tough enough to walk into a social situation where you are the odd man out, so to speak. I feel like it's probably quite easy for a white male to downplay the extra level of determination and courage required for a minority to enter an arena dominated by one group, simply because white guys in North America, don't usually find themselves in situations where they are the minority. I don't believe there are explicit barriers to entry for minorities in aviation, but I can accept that there are legitimate perceived ones.

If we agree that the career is equally suitable for both men and women, and fewer women than men aspire to it, then by definition there is a systemic reason preventing women from aspiring to it. There is no reason for the imbalance other than something systemic.

I do not, however buy in to this. It's not good enough to just assume that because the job itself does not require the traits of a man versus a woman, that both would find the job equally appealing. I don't think it is sound logic to assume that in the absence of any barriers, systemic or otherwise, that equality of opportunity will inevitably and always lead to equality of outcome, particularly when it comes to males and females. It assumes that there can, on average, be no difference between them in terms of what they find appealing, and denies that biology can have any effect on that type of behaviour or affect personality whatsoever. In fact, you would have to believe that there are no biological differences between males and females to fully reconcile this. I realize this belief might actually be popular these days, and might score you a pile of social justice brownie points, but I'm reasonably confident that this is not the case. I think the science is fairly clear that males and females generally have different hormonal profiles, and furthermore, that higher or lower levels of certain hormones affect human personality in fairly predictable ways. From there, I don't think it's a major leap to assume that certain personality traits might cause a person to be more or less attracted to a career in aviation, and that those varying levels of attraction might very well lead to a natural split that is not 50/50.

Either way, it seems a little silly that everyone is getting so upset about this. This is clearly just virtue signaling from a major corporation, clumsily trying to align themselves with the "woke" movement. As has been pointed out, current numbers indicate that they won't have a big enough pool to draw from to reach their goal. If they were really serious about the issue, instead of making ill advised tweets about intended hiring quotas in safety sensitive jobs, they would be organizing grass roots movements to get more women and minorities to start flight training. I don't see why any reasonable white guy should have a problem with that.

[Petit-Lion]

However, for as long as being an airline pilot is a well paid and respected job, I would like my daughter to have the same access to it as a career as my son; without the extra hurdle of being the only woman in her ground school class, the only woman on the type rating course, and the only worman in the flight deck.

She already has.

Sadly, not. If she did, we’d already have 50% female airline pilots.

Not already, perhaps in a few decades. Same for women in Boards of Directors, give them time to build a career first.