Pop-Up IFR

[Dronepiper]

Here is a question for ATC. It’s mostly hypothetical, but someone asked me this the other day, and I didn’t really know how to answer it: “Is it possible to pickup a pop-up IFR clnc?”

Let’s say you file VFR into a controlled airport, but realize as you get closer that the weather will require an IFR approach.

I just told the person that you should have just filed IFR to begin with if its marginal, but what would ATC actually do if you asked for an IFR clnc in that situation? Would they accept it? Would they deny it? Would you technically have to call FISE and file an IFR flight plan first? Would you be technically declaring an emergency to get that Clnc?

[I WAS Pez]

I've done it once before, filed VFR, destination wx lower than expected, lots of fuel to go elsewhere, but the pop-up IFR was a non-issue. They just asked if aircraft and pilot were equipped and rated, then gave me an approach.

[16SidedOffice]

When a VFR pilot is asking for an IFR clearance, it usually means that they are about to enter cloud or in worsening conditions. You do your best to get them one asap which usually means near instantly depending on traffic and location of course. Once you have your clearance, then ATC would ask you to call an FIC to file and get any needed details.

[Challenger 3.0]

.

It can be done, and it does not necessarily mean you are in an emergency.

Provided that the pilot and aircraft are both IFR capable:
Sometimes, if the weather is VFR at your departure airport, you depart VFR and then pickup a pop-up IFR clearance airborne.

That reduces the hassle for all parties involved.

.

[ant_321]

That’s a pretty standard practice in some places. I’ve done it several times leaving the Quebec north shore in beautiful weather. Depart VFR and pick up an IFR airborne to climb higher. I only ever did it if I was prepared to do the whole flight VFR if for some bizarre reason I couldn’t get a clearance when airborne.

[photofly]

In the US, it’s standard.

In Canada, I have heard of pilots being asked if they wished to declare an emergency due to an inability to maintain VFR, and on being told “negative”, being instructed to file an IFR flight plan by radio with FSS, which upon being propagated to the ATC unit in question would result in a clearance being issued.

[digits_]

In Canada, I have heard of pilots being asked if they wished to declare an emergency due to an inability to maintain VFR, and on being told “negative”, being instructed to file an IFR flight plan by radio with FSS, which upon being propagated to the ATC unit in question would result in a clearance being issued.

Yup, getting an IFR clearance is not an issue, but filing a flight plan might be required. Depends on the airspace around you. You won't get into CYWG airspace for example, VFR or IFR, without a class C intent or flight plan.

[rookiepilot]

In the US, it’s standard.

+1.

I've filed with Lockheed down there, get airborne, handed off to departure..."we have nothing" --- NP to airborne file

[TeePeeCreeper]

In the US, it’s standard.

+1.

I've filed with Lockheed down there, get airborne, handed off to departure..."we have nothing" --- NP to airborne file

If Center’s workload allows it. I’ve had the same thing happen and have been told “remain VFR, call FSS and get back to me”.

It’s still nice however to be able to file directly (pop up) IFR if needed. I’ve never understood why Canadian ATC can’t do so workload permitting….

All the best,

TPC

[mijbil]

We did this all the time in the Aurora. We would file a Yankee or Y flight plan, IFR to point X in space, then either "VFR Operational" if inside domestic airspace or "Due Regard" if oceanic. Afterwards coming back in, we would pick up a clearance from some point in space back IFR. What we would have liked would have been a Zulu or Z type of flight plan; IFR to VFR operational (or just VFR) and then IFR. List where you expect to be and when. Yankees were the next closest thing. Trying to get TC or whomever to create a Z category seemed to fall on deaf ears. The Y's worked well enough.
To answer your question, a popup IFR clearance is usually no problem. You might have to loiter a bit waiting to get slotted in and it would depend on your airspace and how busy it was.

[16SidedOffice]

In Canada, I have heard of pilots being asked if they wished to declare an emergency due to an inability to maintain VFR, and on being told “negative”, being instructed to file an IFR flight plan by radio with FSS, which upon being propagated to the ATC unit in question would result in a clearance being issued.

Yup, getting an IFR clearance is not an issue, but filing a flight plan might be required. Depends on the airspace around you. You won't get into CYWG airspace for example, VFR or IFR, without a class C intent or flight plan.

It's painful to hear both of those comments, they are asking for an IFR clearance. It's not rocket science. Give them one and get them safe and then deal with the extras afterward. As for YWG? That's just an old-school mentality more than anything and it's not exactly very busy airspace.

[rookiepilot]

As for YWG? That's just an old-school mentality more than anything and it's not exactly very busy airspace.

New York Approach wannabes, with a fraction of the workload.

[kevenv]

Not sure why pop up IFR's are an issue for controllers anywhere. If you are arriving VFR at my airport and want an IFR clx to get in, I will identify you and issue a clx. If you are squawking 1200 I will assign a discreet code and will need your type and pt of departure. If you were given a code on your VFR flight plan I probably have all the info I need. In any case I never need you to call the FIC or FSS to file an IFR flight plan before I issue the clx (or after for that matter). Fisheries patrol a/c routinely depart on a VFR f/p and the weather drops when they return. They call for a clx and they get it, never amending their f/p for the 40 miles or so flight of the arrival.

En-route a/c are another matter. Ask me for a clx to some other airport somewhere (outside my airspace) and I will issue you one. In this case for our computers to process your flight to destination (ensuring everyone gets your data as required) you will need to contact the FIC/FSS to change your f/p to IFR or to file one. That can be done after I give the clx. I don't get involved with it because I have no access to the national flight planning system nor do I know all the info required. If I wrote down everything you gave me, I then need to call our back room, who then need to call the FIC to get your f/p filed. Easier when I give you the needed FIC frequency for you to do it directly.

As for military a/c wanting to file IFR / VFR / IFR, it happens all the time in QM FIR. They depart IFR shoot an approach somewhere, cancel, do some VFR flying around, then call approaching the next IFR point to pick up the IFR for the remainder of the flight. This happens in domestic airspace only. Due regard operational flights are processed by the system differently and are filed for our purposes as 2 separate flight plans. An IFR/VFR f/p outbound and then a VFR/IFR inbound. They generally remain due regard until they contact us approaching their recovery point.

[co-joe]

Used to do it all the time in air ambulace ops. Airborne in 30 minutes from the time of call doesn't leave much room to file 2 or 3 flight plans. If the patient was critical and brought out to the plane load and go and call in a flight plan airborne. Can't speak for other ACCs but yeg is the best in the business that I've experienced.

The key though is have the back of the CFS or the flight plan form in your hand and just feed them the numbers without having to be prompted for anything. Takes 30 seconds when you're good at it. If you don't know your aircraft equipment codes, or the mandatory routing, go call the FIC, centre is busy.

[valleyboy]

Pop ups are so much a thing of the past. We would never file an IFR flight plan and just grab that clearance. The question is why???? - just lazy for the most part. Why do pilots insist in "going VFR" yup you got it lazy and trying to save time. It's all bullshit. Just file that flight plan or itinerary. Communications are no longer an issue, even in the high arctic. The only exceptions would be flights conducted totally in uncontrolled airspace.

Flame on gents but for the most part pilots like the lazy way out.

[Bede]

As for YWG? That's just an old-school mentality more than anything and it's not exactly very busy airspace.

YWG is the biggest Little Airport in Canada.

[rookiepilot]

As for YWG? That's just an old-school mentality more than anything and it's not exactly very busy airspace.

YWG is the biggest Little Airport in Canada.

Ottawa Terminal might be second place.