Tail Dragger vs Nose Dragger - Windy Days

[light chop]

Just trying to fully understand any limitations of a tail dragger vs a nose dragger on windy days.

More than occasionally I fly my Mooney on fairly strong windy days (last memorable day was 38 knots gusting 45 knots). Wind was right down the runway as usual so takeoffs / landings are fine. Mooneys sit low to the ground with the wing angle of incidence quite low (while on the ground) and they're reasonably heavy. Turning crosswind on the ground while taxing in heavy winds typically presents no challenges - just put the flight controls where they should be (climb into, dive away from) with the wind and taxi. Go slow though.

Let's keep the same windy day and change the airplane to a tail dragger (Van's RV-14, Cessna 180/185, Cub, Husky etc.)

Is it possible to safely taxi a tail dragger on a windy day?
What other issues arise with ground handling on a tail dragger on windy days?

[PilotDAR]

Yes, it is possible to taxi a taildragger on a windy day. If taxiing crosswind, good tailwheel steering will be appreciated. Like a nosewheel plane, the rudder is doing most of the work above taxi speeds. People think it's the third wheel steering, but really not much. I demonstrated this tom myself, by flying circuits in my taildragger on a 22 knot day, on the clear ice of a frozen lake. I landed more and more off the wind, until I was taking a 90 degree crosswind. The plane handled it no problem, until I slowed to taxi speed, and then it weather cocked into the wind, as the tailwheel had no friction on the ice. But as long as I had speed, no problem maintaining directional control. For this reason, I always wheel land, as the tailwheel is not helping with directional control enough to warrant the wear and tear of three pointing it.

That said, a gotcha can be landing with a big crosswind, and using most of the rudder as the tailwheel touches. I once unlocked it unknowingly, and when I slowed to taxi speed, it swiveled, and I could not steer. A gentle, and harmless groundloop, but I felt dumb. So now, I always momentarily center the rudder to assure that the tailwheel steering locks in.

I find that if you always wheel land, you're paying more attention to using the rudder, so you'll keep it more straight. If you can't, put the power on, and go around, as you're still at flying speed anyway. By the time the elevator can't hold the tail off, the rudder is becoming less effective, and you know that the transition to tailwheel steering is happening. Don't stop paying close attention to steering until you're parked. Yes, if you fail to maintain directional control, things will get worse faster than a nosewheel plane, and an irrecoverable groundloop will result. Maybe damage, maybe not, but never good.

[fish4life]

Big difference as well between a heavy tail stagger like a 185 and a cub for aircraft weight and how much wind they can take

[TeePeeCreeper]

Big difference as well between a heavy tail stagger like a 185 and a cub for aircraft weight and how much wind they can take

I’m curious as to the above comment.

I regularly fly a 185 in the same conditions I would take a J3 out to play with. In fact, I’m far more hesitant to fly a 180/185 (or even a bigger tail dragger such as a -3) which weigh ALOT more than the anorexic ballerina known as a J3 in higher cross wind conditions.

As PilotDar pointed out earlier in the thread, at lower speeds a loss of rudder control/authority naturally occurs.

Bigger tails have a tendency to weather cock easily compared to their smaller brethren once that control authority is lost.

Regards,

TPC

[pelmet]

What other issues arise with ground handling on a tail dragger on windy days?

I have twice witnessed a taildragger need external help to turn while taxiing on windy days…..too much wind force on the tail(I suppose the fuselage too)to be able to turn crosswind. They were a Tiger Moth and a Cessna 180 on a slippery surface.

It is the turning that can be the problem, especially if the tail wheel is free castoring. Brake capability is part of it as well.

Perhaps it is like on floats to a certain extent when it comes to wind effecting turning.

[fish4life]

Big difference as well between a heavy tail stagger like a 185 and a cub for aircraft weight and how much wind they can take

I’m curious as to the above comment.

I regularly fly a 185 in the same conditions I would take a J3 out to play with. In fact, I’m far more hesitant to fly a 180/185 (or even a bigger tail dragger such as a -3) which weigh ALOT more than the anorexic ballerina known as a J3 in higher cross wind conditions.

As PilotDar pointed out earlier in the thread, at lower speeds a loss of rudder control/authority naturally occurs.

Bigger tails have a tendency to weather cock easily compared to their smaller brethren once that control authority is lost.

Regards,

TPC

It comes to the ability of the wind to lift a wing, a cub 90 can fly at 30kts whereas a 185 is still nowhere near flying speed in the same wind.

How big is your 185 tail wheel? The bigger tail wheels feel a lot more planted than the small stock ones

[JasonE]

The ability to safely taxi also has to do with the weight on the tailwheel. I can fly the 7KCab in conditions I would not even consider taking the J3 out of the hangar. The tail is heavy (about 200 lbs?) compared to the cub (maybe 40 lbs?)

[TrilliumFlt]

In a J3/Champ with a 40 kt x-wind just land across the runway, at the wind the GS will be near zero !!!

[light chop]

What other issues arise with ground handling on a tail dragger on windy days?

I have twice witnessed a taildragger need external help to turn while taxiing on windy days…..too much wind force on the tail(I suppose the fuselage too)to be able to turn crosswind. They were a Tiger Moth and a Cessna 180 on a slippery surface.

It is the turning that can be the problem, especially if the tail wheel is free castoring. Brake capability is part of it as well.

Perhaps it is like on floats to a certain extent when it comes to wind effecting turning.

I've had to help out wing walking a buddy's Citabria (two people in it) on a windy day too - he landed fine as wind is right down the pipe but couldn't turn the thing crosswind and I think he was concerned the upwind wing might pop up too. Two of us hung onto the struts and walked him all the way back to his hangar.