AME shortage?

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newlygrounded
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Re: AME shortage?

Post by newlygrounded »

PitchLink wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 5:44 am
hithere wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 7:27 pm Yet if you look at the survey, despite the low pay rate people seem happy with the program and work they are doing upon graduation....
Very similar to pilots who, despite having paid, on average, at least 4X the cost for their licences, still agree to start off instructing or up north throwing bags for minimum wage. AME graduates make more money than pilot graduates until at least a pilot's first Captaincy at a regional. That sometimes takes 4-6 years from Commercial pilot licence graduation and AMEs do not have nearly the amount of student debt that pilots do
Depending on where and what you go to fly and fix. Pilots have the initial cost of the license (bout 100k give or take) but they don’t have to continually buy tools the rest of their career, it doesn’t take long to have $60k in tools from graduation which is also an investment in an ame’s career. I guess the helmet and iPads do need to be replaced often enough in rotary. Idk they’re both expensive enough for initial cost and paying dues for crap wages.
Honestly the lost wages during your first 5+ years as a pilot cost a lot more than most people are willing to admit
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PitchLink
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Re: AME shortage?

Post by PitchLink »

newlygrounded wrote: Sun Nov 07, 2021 5:03 pm
PitchLink wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 5:44 am
hithere wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 7:27 pm Yet if you look at the survey, despite the low pay rate people seem happy with the program and work they are doing upon graduation....
Very similar to pilots who, despite having paid, on average, at least 4X the cost for their licences, still agree to start off instructing or up north throwing bags for minimum wage. AME graduates make more money than pilot graduates until at least a pilot's first Captaincy at a regional. That sometimes takes 4-6 years from Commercial pilot licence graduation and AMEs do not have nearly the amount of student debt that pilots do
Depending on where and what you go to fly and fix. Pilots have the initial cost of the license (bout 100k give or take) but they don’t have to continually buy tools the rest of their career, it doesn’t take long to have $60k in tools from graduation which is also an investment in an ame’s career. I guess the helmet and iPads do need to be replaced often enough in rotary. Idk they’re both expensive enough for initial cost and paying dues for crap wages.
Honestly the lost wages during your first 5+ years as a pilot cost a lot more than most people are willing to admit
I fully acknowledge it. It’s criminal, I don’t know how owners can look themselves in the mirror, they probably don’t have a reflection anyways.
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chowda
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Re: AME shortage?

Post by chowda »

chowda wrote: Sun Nov 07, 2021 4:45 pm
SeptRepair wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:25 am
helicopterray wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:23 pm If you have an M1 and M2, you automatically are covered for all AME tasks. There are no further endorsements that you need for S or E.
An AMO, however, will have to prove you are qualified to perform structures or Avionics work for them.
I guess that is the kicker here, the AMO which has the Structures rating needs to have that skilled person regardless if anybody has an S license. I looked into the situation a bit further ( emailed the school) and the reason the Structures programs are not currently available is due to lack of interest and enrollments numbers. Cant blame people really for not wanting to take the course to only come out and start at 17/hr.
As for the M programs, I also looked into the numbers at BCIT and they have information that pretty much cements the idea of why getting into aircraft maintenance is a lost cause. https://www.bcit.ca/files/ir/gp/1010dipma.pdf In summary, with just over half of the total number of students who bothered to take the survey the consensus was you can expect to make 20/hr to start as a fresh apprentice. These numbers are for the 2017,2018, and 2019 years. I couldn't imagine what the 2020, 2021 numbers are going to look like!!
To keep life in perspective, my daughter this summer, age 16, worked as a waitress and was grossing 400/day including tips on an 8 hr shift!! I had the conversation with her how the money she is making is not a norm, that you need an education to make that in the real world. She fortunately believes me and is still focused on post secondary education ( Wants to be an airline pilot . FML), but deep down i feel like telling her @#$! schooling and keep waitressing till your 40. It has taken dad 35 years in the aircraft industry to make that kind of money.
I see many of the common fast food franchises advertising on their sign boards "FT $17.50 an hour" in Kelowna. They still cant find bodies.

*UPDATE* - just drove by one of the mentioned franchises, and they're now offering a $300 signing bonus. 😁😁😁

This is what entry level aviation is competing with and they're basically on par, if you dismiss the tuition debt and tool expenses apprentices are saddled with.

Pathetic industry.
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PitchLink
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Re: AME shortage?

Post by PitchLink »

chowda wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:40 pm
chowda wrote: Sun Nov 07, 2021 4:45 pm
SeptRepair wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:25 am

I guess that is the kicker here, the AMO which has the Structures rating needs to have that skilled person regardless if anybody has an S license. I looked into the situation a bit further ( emailed the school) and the reason the Structures programs are not currently available is due to lack of interest and enrollments numbers. Cant blame people really for not wanting to take the course to only come out and start at 17/hr.
As for the M programs, I also looked into the numbers at BCIT and they have information that pretty much cements the idea of why getting into aircraft maintenance is a lost cause. https://www.bcit.ca/files/ir/gp/1010dipma.pdf In summary, with just over half of the total number of students who bothered to take the survey the consensus was you can expect to make 20/hr to start as a fresh apprentice. These numbers are for the 2017,2018, and 2019 years. I couldn't imagine what the 2020, 2021 numbers are going to look like!!
To keep life in perspective, my daughter this summer, age 16, worked as a waitress and was grossing 400/day including tips on an 8 hr shift!! I had the conversation with her how the money she is making is not a norm, that you need an education to make that in the real world. She fortunately believes me and is still focused on post secondary education ( Wants to be an airline pilot . FML), but deep down i feel like telling her @#$! schooling and keep waitressing till your 40. It has taken dad 35 years in the aircraft industry to make that kind of money.
I see many of the common fast food franchises advertising on their sign boards "FT $17.50 an hour" in Kelowna. They still cant find bodies.

*UPDATE* - just drove by one of the mentioned franchises, and they're now offering a $300 signing bonus. 😁😁😁

This is what entry level aviation is competing with and they're basically on par, if you dismiss the tuition debt and tool expenses apprentices are saddled with.

Pathetic industry.
About ten years ago and prior great slave and Canadian used to offer a 5-10k signing bonus just to fly or fix their aircraft for the summer. Those daily rates from them to now haven’t increased, they’ve actually decreased ffs, oh ya, no more signing bonus’. +1 on it’s a pathetic industry, it’s geared towards single incels that live in their moms basements these days it seems lol
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chowda
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Re: AME shortage?

Post by chowda »

" +1 on it’s a pathetic industry, it’s geared towards single incels that live in their moms basements these days it seems lol"

I think in some cases its actually worse.

There was a mouthfoamer in the maint section announcing how he was going to open up his own M1 service company. His biz plan was to live out of his work van because that's the only way he will get clients.

He was very defensive about it. I had to wonder if I've ever seen an auto mech, plumber, electrician, etc get out of school and aim for the gutter like that. I never have. Its an aviation thing with the "love airplanes", "do it for the passion" etc. This industry attracts a significantly large amount of passionate losers and many businesses base their business plans accordingly.
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Bug_Stomper_01
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Re: AME shortage?

Post by Bug_Stomper_01 »

chowda wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:27 pm " +1 on it’s a pathetic industry, it’s geared towards single incels that live in their moms basements these days it seems lol"

I think in some cases its actually worse.

There was a mouthfoamer in the maint section announcing how he was going to open up his own M1 service company. His biz plan was to live out of his work van because that's the only way he will get clients.

He was very defensive about it. I had to wonder if I've ever seen an auto mech, plumber, electrician, etc get out of school and aim for the gutter like that. I never have. Its an aviation thing with the "love airplanes", "do it for the passion" etc. This industry attracts a significantly large amount of passionate losers and many businesses base their business plans accordingly.
They’re aerocucks lol, they watch their bottom feeding behaviour and rates f$ck the rest of us!
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digits_
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Re: AME shortage?

Post by digits_ »

chowda wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:27 pm " +1 on it’s a pathetic industry, it’s geared towards single incels that live in their moms basements these days it seems lol"

I think in some cases its actually worse.

There was a mouthfoamer in the maint section announcing how he was going to open up his own M1 service company. His biz plan was to live out of his work van because that's the only way he will get clients.

He was very defensive about it. I had to wonder if I've ever seen an auto mech, plumber, electrician, etc get out of school and aim for the gutter like that. I never have. Its an aviation thing with the "love airplanes", "do it for the passion" etc. This industry attracts a significantly large amount of passionate losers and many businesses base their business plans accordingly.
A travelling AME is a great business model. A decent one will likely make much more than most AMEs on avcanada.
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As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
Crossthreaded
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Re: AME shortage?

Post by Crossthreaded »

digits_ wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 9:56 pm
chowda wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:27 pm " +1 on it’s a pathetic industry, it’s geared towards single incels that live in their moms basements these days it seems lol"

I think in some cases its actually worse.

There was a mouthfoamer in the maint section announcing how he was going to open up his own M1 service company. His biz plan was to live out of his work van because that's the only way he will get clients.

He was very defensive about it. I had to wonder if I've ever seen an auto mech, plumber, electrician, etc get out of school and aim for the gutter like that. I never have. Its an aviation thing with the "love airplanes", "do it for the passion" etc. This industry attracts a significantly large amount of passionate losers and many businesses base their business plans accordingly.
A travelling AME is a great business model. A decent one will likely make much more than most AMEs on avcanada.

There’s a difference between a travelling AME and a guy living out of a van down by the river!
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chowda
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Re: AME shortage?

Post by chowda »

Exactly, but that reply is typical of the ones who defend this business. Those of us who want to live as a part of society are doing it wrong, as he implies.

I guess $35 a hr is lottery money when you're not paying rent/mortgage showering in truck stops, and shitting in a bucket down by the river.

Yeah, Im missing out
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Crossthreaded
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Re: AME shortage?

Post by Crossthreaded »

chowda wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:27 pm " +1 on it’s a pathetic industry, it’s geared towards single incels that live in their moms basements these days it seems lol"

I think in some cases its actually worse.

There was a mouthfoamer in the maint section announcing how he was going to open up his own M1 service company. His biz plan was to live out of his work van because that's the only way he will get clients.

He was very defensive about it. I had to wonder if I've ever seen an auto mech, plumber, electrician, etc get out of school and aim for the gutter like that. I never have. Its an aviation thing with the "love airplanes", "do it for the passion" etc. This industry attracts a significantly large amount of passionate losers and many businesses base their business plans accordingly.
Wtf is this normal? Is this guy in southern Ontario?!?
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Crossthreaded
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Re: AME shortage?

Post by Crossthreaded »

digits_ wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 9:56 pm
chowda wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:27 pm " +1 on it’s a pathetic industry, it’s geared towards single incels that live in their moms basements these days it seems lol"

I think in some cases its actually worse.

There was a mouthfoamer in the maint section announcing how he was going to open up his own M1 service company. His biz plan was to live out of his work van because that's the only way he will get clients.

He was very defensive about it. I had to wonder if I've ever seen an auto mech, plumber, electrician, etc get out of school and aim for the gutter like that. I never have. Its an aviation thing with the "love airplanes", "do it for the passion" etc. This industry attracts a significantly large amount of passionate losers and many businesses base their business plans accordingly.
A travelling AME is a great business model. A decent one will likely make much more than most AMEs on avcanada.
Not many ames don’t travel from my experience
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Bug_Stomper_01
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Re: AME shortage?

Post by Bug_Stomper_01 »

chowda wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 11:39 pm Exactly, but that reply is typical of the ones who defend this business. Those of us who want to live as a part of society are doing it wrong, as he implies.

I guess $35 a hr is lottery money when you're not paying rent/mortgage showering in truck stops, and shitting in a bucket down by the river.

Yeah, Im missing out
His shop rate was $35/hr?????
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digits_
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Re: AME shortage?

Post by digits_ »

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=144265 if you want to discuss the traveling AME idea. It's only fair to give the original poster a chance to reply if you plan on ridiculing him.
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As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
PitchLink
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Re: AME shortage?

Post by PitchLink »

digits_ wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:01 am viewtopic.php?f=27&t=144265 if you want to discuss the traveling AME idea. It's only fair to give the original poster a chance to reply if you plan on ridiculing him.
I don’t see where they’re talking about this guy anywhere in this thread
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chowda
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Re: AME shortage?

Post by chowda »

digits_ wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:01 am viewtopic.php?f=27&t=144265 if you want to discuss the traveling AME idea. It's only fair to give the original poster a chance to reply if you plan on ridiculing him.

Firstly, who's denying him the chance?

Secondly, his entire post is full of his replies on how much he's into doing nothing except airplanes, and going deeper for aircraft owners/aviation than anybody else to make the owners happy.

Oh yeah, his original brainstorm was to do this while employed by the very company who maintains the aircraft he wants to go after. He couldn't grasp that this would set him for for dismissal without severance.

Most of it is nauseating and he sounded particularly naive.
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Bug_Stomper_01
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Re: AME shortage?

Post by Bug_Stomper_01 »

chowda wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:15 pm
digits_ wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:01 am viewtopic.php?f=27&t=144265 if you want to discuss the traveling AME idea. It's only fair to give the original poster a chance to reply if you plan on ridiculing him.

Firstly, who's denying him the chance?

Secondly, his entire post is full of his replies on how much he's into doing nothing except airplanes, and going deeper for aircraft owners/aviation than anybody else to make the owners happy.

Oh yeah, his original brainstorm was to do this while employed by the very company who maintains the aircraft he wants to go after. He couldn't grasp that this would set him for for dismissal without severance.

Most of it is nauseating and he sounded particularly naive.
He’s not the only one, this is what experienced guys that just want to do their job and make a decent wage are up against. I sure AF won’t be living in a van and delivering pizzas!
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PitchLink
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Re: AME shortage?

Post by PitchLink »

Bug_Stomper_01 wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 11:40 am
chowda wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:15 pm
digits_ wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:01 am viewtopic.php?f=27&t=144265 if you want to discuss the traveling AME idea. It's only fair to give the original poster a chance to reply if you plan on ridiculing him.

Firstly, who's denying him the chance?

Secondly, his entire post is full of his replies on how much he's into doing nothing except airplanes, and going deeper for aircraft owners/aviation than anybody else to make the owners happy.

Oh yeah, his original brainstorm was to do this while employed by the very company who maintains the aircraft he wants to go after. He couldn't grasp that this would set him for for dismissal without severance.

Most of it is nauseating and he sounded particularly naive.
He’s not the only one, this is what experienced guys that just want to do their job and make a decent wage are up against. I sure AF won’t be living in a van and delivering pizzas!
Living in a van, yeesh
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Bug_Stomper_01
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Re: AME shortage?

Post by Bug_Stomper_01 »

Here, the AME shortage is solved PHEW!

https://emigratecanada.com/immigrate-to ... -mechanic/
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PitchLink
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Re: AME shortage?

Post by PitchLink »

Bug_Stomper_01 wrote: Sun Jul 10, 2022 1:18 am Here, the AME shortage is solved PHEW!

https://emigratecanada.com/immigrate-to ... -mechanic/
I’m seeing that lots, it’s unfortunate because these programs are largely setting these poor guys up for failure. But with experience waning what choice does Canada have…… but increase average wages to approximately acceptable levels
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Bug_Stomper_01
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Re: AME shortage?

Post by Bug_Stomper_01 »

It’s here to stay. But aviation in Canada is literally in the boiler room of the sewer right now imo
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