AME shortage?

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Invertago
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AME shortage?

Post by Invertago »

Whats the story behind all the AME and admin jobs popping up, is this the start of the industry recovery in general and hopefully pilot jobs will follow?
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mmm..bacon
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Re: AME shortage?

Post by mmm..bacon »

I think that there was a fair bit of disgruntlement in the AME ranks in the past: long hours, lots of responsibility, poor pay, etc.. If AMEs were let go in the same way and numbers that pilots were, I could see a lot of them saying 'fukkit!' and going and finding other 'wrench-twisting' jobs outside of aviation. I'd imagine that you could take your mechanical skills and go and work in the local Toyota dealership for about the same money, but M-F 9-5, no night shifts, no fixing broken lavs in -20c, and so on..
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Re: AME shortage?

Post by MD-2 »

I don't think Covid effected the AME / Maintenance Departments like the Pilot side. Unfortunately there is still a shortage of experienced AME's. Added to this the exodus of AME's moving to other fields of work and retirement. This shortage of experienced AME's is going to be a challenge in the near future.
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flyingcanuck
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Re: AME shortage?

Post by flyingcanuck »

also seems like wages have remained pretty low so Im assuming alot of them have decided to change careers
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digits_
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Re: AME shortage?

Post by digits_ »

I'm surprised any AME is still working in the industry with the kind of schedule most of them have...
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Re: AME shortage?

Post by Inverted2 »

You can make as much working at a car dealership and work weekdays vs. nights, holidays and weekends.
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Re: AME shortage?

Post by geodoc »

Hell, in the 80's (Seattle) I found that I could pull down way better $ as the mobile espresso machine repair guy than troubleshooting the pressurization on your King Air.
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Invertago
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Re: AME shortage?

Post by Invertago »

geodoc wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:00 am Hell, in the 80's (Seattle) I found that I could pull down way better $ as the mobile espresso machine repair guy than troubleshooting the pressurization on your King Air.
And this is why so many king airs don't pressurize properly but the FBO espresso is great.
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Re: AME shortage?

Post by Heliian »

Ya, there's a shortage that started more than 10 years ago.

You can't just switch to being an auto mechanic though. You'd have to go to school and earn your ticket just the same. Unlicensed mechanics don't get paid that well either but after a few years you could be making as much as an ame.

Just find a job that you enjoy that pays well.

I think that ame wages will go up again once travel restarts and companies are scrambling for people even more than they are now.

I get that there are some unscrupulous operators who'll low ball everyone but for the most part it's petty decent and has served me well for the last 20 years. I worked in an auto shop for 2 years and that was enough to not want to work in an auto shop again. Even though they charge you $110/hr to fix your car the techs won't pull even half that.
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Re: AME shortage?

Post by geodoc »

Invertago wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:34 pm
geodoc wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:00 am Hell, in the 80's (Seattle) I found that I could pull down way better $ as the mobile espresso machine repair guy than troubleshooting the pressurization on your King Air.
And this is why so many king airs don't pressurize properly but the FBO espresso is great.

:D :D :D :D

even back then the standard quip was that "A&P" stood for "Always Poor"


.
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Re: AME shortage?

Post by dumpsterfire »

geodoc wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:29 pm
Invertago wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:34 pm
geodoc wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:00 am Hell, in the 80's (Seattle) I found that I could pull down way better $ as the mobile espresso machine repair guy than troubleshooting the pressurization on your King Air.
And this is why so many king airs don't pressurize properly but the FBO espresso is great.

:D :D :D :D

even back then the standard quip was that "A&P" stood for "Always Poor"


.
:lol: :lol:
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Re: AME shortage?

Post by RLK »

Inverted2 wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 10:51 am You can make as much working at a car dealership and work weekdays vs. nights, holidays and weekends.
Automotive dealerships pay their technicians on flat rate (piece work). Or better known at flat rape. Automotive technology has been outpacing technician education for many years now. If you do not have many years of experience on automotive systems you are going to starve in flat rate, and many do. They guy in the bay next to you will slit your throat over a 0.2 hour oil change.
For the ones that say fixing cars pays better that aircraft are sadly mistaken.
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digits_
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Re: AME shortage?

Post by digits_ »

Why would they slit their colleague's throat for extra work if they are paid a flat rate?
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Re: AME shortage?

Post by RLK »

digits_ wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:02 am Why would they slit their colleague's throat for extra work if they are paid a flat rate?
Your colleague is your competition, not your team mate. Every one is pitted against each other. In the flat rate system the more you know the less you make. If you are skilled you will get handed all of the hard diagnostics and shit jobs that don't pay very well while the lower skilled get handed easy maintenance/service work that does pay. This is driving skilled technicians out of the industry while everyone fights over gravey work. Favoritism is a big problem when handing out work, and that directly effects your pay.
If you work for a independent aftermarket shop, you will most likely be paid straight hourly. But you will be expected to fix everything under the sun with no tools and service information.
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Re: AME shortage?

Post by Bug_Stomper_01 »

Heliian wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:59 pm Ya, there's a shortage that started more than 10 years ago.

You can't just switch to being an auto mechanic though. You'd have to go to school and earn your ticket just the same. Unlicensed mechanics don't get paid that well either but after a few years you could be making as much as an ame.

Just find a job that you enjoy that pays well.

I think that ame wages will go up again once travel restarts and companies are scrambling for people even more than they are now.

I get that there are some unscrupulous operators who'll low ball everyone but for the most part it's petty decent and has served me well for the last 20 years. I worked in an auto shop for 2 years and that was enough to not want to work in an auto shop again. Even though they charge you $110/hr to fix your car the techs won't pull even half that.
As someone licensed in both fields (ame M1/M2 and red seal heavy duty and automotive) I don’t think your assessment is correct. Ame wages are going to remain low for the foreseeable future with the lack of work in Canada. One of the larger Airlines still has higher time Guys furloughed but are aggressively hiring new blood at $31/hr.
I can tell you for certain you can make almost that as a first year apprentice in heavy duty and automotive, the red seal trades are being affected by this rift from people putting down their tools after COVID19’s impact.
The only areas in Canada that aren’t quite as busy as they were but on an uptick is corporate / business flight which is a very small area of aviation (even more so than rotary which is forever damaged foreseeably and has never sucked more A$$).

As for your claim that you can’t just switch careers and start working on cars or trucks, you’re correct to a point about school, one year. You can challenge all years of apprenticeship and be granted 3 of the 4 year apprenticeship in any province or territory in Canada for heavy duty and automotive. You have to complete one year of apprenticeship and 8 weeks of school and do the exams it’s not hard at all, I’ve helped other AMEs make the switch in the past few years.

The industry sickness is to blame for this crap wage standard and BS of no schedule and extreme responsibility with your ame license. There’s a reason nobody is getting into this anymore, social media and forums like this one leave little to enthuse about wrenching on aircraft in Canada. Personally I think it’s going to get worse WAY worse before (IF) things ever turn around.
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Last edited by Bug_Stomper_01 on Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: AME shortage?

Post by Bug_Stomper_01 »

Invertago wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 7:36 pm Whats the story behind all the AME and admin jobs popping up, is this the start of the industry recovery in general and hopefully pilot jobs will follow?
No it’s management knowing it’s still an employers market and know that the high time guys on furlough cost too much to bring back. Hiring lower time AMEs with less experience with type course carrots on sticks for $30/hr makes good business sense. Get 1-2 years out of them and let the revolving door carry on..
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Re: AME shortage?

Post by Bug_Stomper_01 »

digits_ wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 10:19 am I'm surprised any AME is still working in the industry with the kind of schedule most of them have...
It’s garbage man, I feel for anyone that only has this as a means of a living
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Re: AME shortage?

Post by Bug_Stomper_01 »

RLK wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:39 pm
Inverted2 wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 10:51 am You can make as much working at a car dealership and work weekdays vs. nights, holidays and weekends.
Automotive dealerships pay their technicians on flat rate (piece work). Or better known at flat rape. Automotive technology has been outpacing technician education for many years now. If you do not have many years of experience on automotive systems you are going to starve in flat rate, and many do. They guy in the bay next to you will slit your throat over a 0.2 hour oil change.
For the ones that say fixing cars pays better that aircraft are sadly mistaken.
Depends on where RLK, I haven’t been in a flat rate shop in quite some time heavy duty is hourly but there is a suggested menu price. Automotive rates were forever listed and near mirrored by Mitchell but I think it’s gone much skinnier than those jobs. It is on an upswing if you look where wages are for auto mechanics crocs Canada it’s going way up.
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Re: AME shortage?

Post by Bug_Stomper_01 »

Invertago wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:34 pm
geodoc wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:00 am Hell, in the 80's (Seattle) I found that I could pull down way better $ as the mobile espresso machine repair guy than troubleshooting the pressurization on your King Air.
And this is why so many king airs don't pressurize properly but the FBO espresso is great.
The toilet dumping tire fillers that couldn’t, trying on a system that someone could that left this industry IS industry standard!
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Re: AME shortage?

Post by Bug_Stomper_01 »

MD-2 wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:37 am I don't think Covid effected the AME / Maintenance Departments like the Pilot side. Unfortunately there is still a shortage of experienced AME's. Added to this the exodus of AME's moving to other fields of work and retirement. This shortage of experienced AME's is going to be a challenge in the near future.
It just expedited the inevitable, employers know they can still get by with low time talent and will do so as they always have with their greasy methods of promised type endorsements or promised bases or promised salaries, you know, the vanishing carrot act that they’ve (most operators) have used to some degree or another since the beginning in Canada .
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