Hangar row etiquitte

This forum has been developed to discuss aviation related topics.

Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog

Post Reply
User avatar
PilotDAR
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4053
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:46 pm
Location: Near CNJ4 Orillia, Ontario

Hangar row etiquitte

Post by PilotDAR »

I went to visit a client this morning, and to examine the engine change on his airplane for approval. I flew to the mid sized airport where he's based, and met him at his hangar. Being such a beautiful day, he welcomed me with an opened hangar door. This was 11:05 in the morning. We chatted, as I began to look at his plane.

Soon after (I'm going to say within 20 minutes of my arrival), the operator/owner/pilot (I don't know which) started an advanced single, on the next hangar row taxiway across, but in unobstructed direct view of us. My host winced just a tiny amount. We tried to continue our conversation, but it was more difficult, as the operator of the plane increased the power. It wasn't a normal run up, as there was no mag check, nor prop check, just increasing power. The trees at the end of the hangar row were moving in the prop wash. I was imagining a gentle power off, and taxi away....

Nope, he just kept it running. We tried to chat, but it was difficult, with a lot of leaning in and "what?...". I suppose my host could have closed the hangar door, but you know, the minute it touches the floor the plane taxis away. The power was eventually set to what I'd guess to be very high power, and held there for many minutes, tail shaking, airplane straining against the brakes. Just before 12, he shut down. Thank goodness for that! But it was better than half an hour, consistently well above idle.

A colleague came to join our discussion about 12:15, and minutes later, the same plane started up again. This discussion was going to be difficult. When I got in my plane to leave at 1PM, the other plane was still running, having been running the whole time, and between mid and high power (never just idle). At one point, I did see the right seat occupant lean toward the right side window, and facepalm. Yeah, I felt the same way, though perhaps for a different reason....

I can't imagine what test or check required that much power, for that long, while stationary. It's surely hard on the engine, poor cooling and all (yes, he was pointed downwind for all of this). I remarked to my host that it would have been much more courteous for the operator to take the plane to a more vacant area. My host commented that he had done this last week also, though taken the plane to a mid point on a taxiway, and apparently blocked in an aircraft behind him who wanted to pass (getting sandblasted instead, no doubt).

If you know that it's going to be more than just a few minutes of ground run, consider taking the plane to an area where your operations will have the least effect on others - it's just good etiquette!
---------- ADS -----------
 
digits_
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5931
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:26 am

Re: Hangar row etiquitte

Post by digits_ »

Having been on the receiving end of being called 'inconsiderate' during engine run ups after analyzing the situation for a few minutes, I find that the end result is that you might always be inconveniencing someone and someone always can and will complain.

If you do this in front of a hangar, the hangar owner might complain.
If you do it on the apron, you might be sandblasting another airplane. If you finally find a spot without an airplane parked, some other guy might show up and complain you are blocking the fuel tanks.
If you move to the taxi way, at some point someone will want to pass you and they will complain.
If you move to the runway of the quiet airport, guaranteed someone will complain.
If you manage to find an isolated part of the airport, the neighbors might complain.

Sometimes you just can't win. A dead end taxiway in front of hangar doors that can be fully closed, might be the best option. From what I understand, you were only worried about the noise, and he wasn't blowing dust in the hangar? That's already more than can sometimes be expected!
---------- ADS -----------
 
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
Heliian
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1976
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:14 pm

Re: Hangar row etiquitte

Post by Heliian »

Ya, I totally understand, there's a private guy a row over from us that likes to do runups right in the middle of the taxiway, sometimes for 20-30 minutes like it's his private apron.
---------- ADS -----------
 
broken_slinky
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 266
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:48 am

Re: Hangar row etiquitte

Post by broken_slinky »

For anything more than firing up my plane to do a light warm up, I move my plane out to the apron. Would never run my plane mid to full throttle anywhere near any buildings or other aircraft. Way to easy for something to go horribly wrong if the brakes or my brain fails.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
AirFrame
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2610
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:27 pm
Location: Sidney, BC
Contact:

Re: Hangar row etiquitte

Post by AirFrame »

We have an owner in our complex who has a square hangar and parks nose in. Pushes the plane out by hand, but taxis it in when he's done for the day. Leaves the hangar doors open all day while he's gone, too. I care less about the doors being left open, but when he powers up for the turn and to taxi into his hangar, he's pointing right at *my* hangar, and all the dust/gravel/dirt from the ramp gets blown under my door as a result.
---------- ADS -----------
 
2R
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4318
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 2:25 pm
Location: left coast

Re: Hangar row etiquitte

Post by 2R »

They told me long run ups could make you go blind , so I told them I would stop when I need glasses :)
---------- ADS -----------
 
Choppermech1986
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:13 am

Re: Hangar row etiquitte

Post by Choppermech1986 »

This has to be the most Canadian topic I've seen in a long time. Instead of going and talking to him, seeing if you could offer your knowledge and expertise to help troubleshoot his problem or teach him, you've gone online anonymously to basically rant.

From your post history, you've got a lot to offer, I'd hope you weren't so hesitant to approach a fellow aviator in the future. GA, and especially Canadian GA needs folks who give a F if we are going to grow and nurture this industry/hobby.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
PilotDAR
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4053
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:46 pm
Location: Near CNJ4 Orillia, Ontario

Re: Hangar row etiquitte

Post by PilotDAR »

Instead of going and talking to him, seeing if you could offer your knowledge and expertise to help troubleshoot his problem or teach him, you've gone online anonymously to basically rant.
Under other circumstances I very certainly would have. Two things prevented my doing so on this occasion: I was visiting a client at his hangar across the way, and my being seen by my client, or the offending operator could have caused embarrassment, which was not my privilege on that occasion, and, by the time I got in my plane to leave, he was still running. I did say half jokingly to my client just before I left: "If he shuts down before I go, I'm thinking to go and talk to him...". My client just smiled, so I was not sure of that idea was supported, and I have learned in the past that if in doubt, best not make a fuss at the time.

Honestly, if I had gone to talk to him, my talk would have been more than half: "Were you watching your temps? You could cook it, sitting downwind, running such high power for so long!". Inconvenience, though noticeable to we bystanders, is still not as bad a cooking a engine!

My post here makes only the event, and the time identifiable, not the offender nor the location. Truly, I hope that the offender might anonymously read here, and think to himself; Ooo, that might have been me, I should do it differently next time!

I was right seat in a friend's 182 a very long time ago, when at the last moment, he thoughtlessly powered around on the apron, sandblasting two other stopped, attended, doors open planes. I was not flying, but the more experienced pilot in the 182. I jumped right out at shutdown, even before remarking to my friend, and went to apologize to both of the other pilots about them being sandblasted. That seemed to reduce their totally justified anger. Then I explained to my friend why we don't do that, there was lots of help to push the plane around after shutdown.

In this case, if the hangar row operator had a five minute ground check/run up, go ahead, I'll wait. But if you know it's going to take half an hour, there were certainly better places to do it. And then a second time.... Yesterday, I had a long ground run to do in a Navajo. I taxied it well away from everyone to an unoccupied taxiway, and used the lowest power settings I could do to get the work done.
---------- ADS -----------
 
2R
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4318
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 2:25 pm
Location: left coast

Re: Hangar row etiquitte

Post by 2R »

Some women like to sit on washing machines , I wonder if long run ups are the male equivalent ?
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
AirFrame
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2610
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:27 pm
Location: Sidney, BC
Contact:

Re: Hangar row etiquitte

Post by AirFrame »

PilotDAR wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 3:56 amHonestly, if I had gone to talk to him, my talk would have been more than half: "Were you watching your temps? You could cook it, sitting downwind, running such high power for so long!".
Please don't ruin your argument by slipping in falsies. Pointing downwind vs. upwind makes little difference to a running engine, especially one at a high power setting.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
AirFrame
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2610
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:27 pm
Location: Sidney, BC
Contact:

Re: Hangar row etiquitte

Post by AirFrame »

Choppermech1986 wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:16 pm This has to be the most Canadian topic I've seen in a long time. Instead of going and talking to him, seeing if you could offer your knowledge and expertise to help troubleshoot his problem or teach him, you've gone online anonymously to basically rant.
Sadly, the behaviour of people at airports has become more American... it's all about me and nobody else matters. It seems no matter how politely you approach someone these days, the second you make any slight suggestion towards the fact they may have done something untoward, you get abuse in return. Try to talk to someone about how ill-advised it is to run an engine while parked in a hangar. Try to tell someone that turning a running aircraft towards someone else's door blows dirt into their hangar. Try to suggest that leaving an airplane at the pump "just for a minute" is incredibly rude.

The Canadian thing is to apologize for being offended, and to tell your friends later what a yutz that person was.
---------- ADS -----------
 
digits_
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5931
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:26 am

Re: Hangar row etiquitte

Post by digits_ »

AirFrame wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:54 am
PilotDAR wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 3:56 amHonestly, if I had gone to talk to him, my talk would have been more than half: "Were you watching your temps? You could cook it, sitting downwind, running such high power for so long!".
Please don't ruin your argument by slipping in falsies. Pointing downwind vs. upwind makes little difference to a running engine, especially one at a high power setting.
Que?

It's the difference between exhaust blowing where it shouldn't and where it should. You can smell the difference in the cabin.
---------- ADS -----------
 
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
pelmet
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 7138
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:48 pm

Re: Hangar row etiquitte

Post by pelmet »

AirFrame wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:54 am
PilotDAR wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 3:56 amHonestly, if I had gone to talk to him, my talk would have been more than half: "Were you watching your temps? You could cook it, sitting downwind, running such high power for so long!".
Please don't ruin your argument by slipping in falsies. Pointing downwind vs. upwind makes little difference to a running engine, especially one at a high power setting.
I remember doing an extended engine run in a C337 many years ago on a day with an OAT near freezing. It was the front engine. I was 90 degrees to the wind and was surprised when I saw the oil temp near the redline. Turned into wind and it went down quite quickly.
---------- ADS -----------
 
pelmet
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 7138
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:48 pm

Re: Hangar row etiquitte

Post by pelmet »

AirFrame wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:00 am
Choppermech1986 wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:16 pm This has to be the most Canadian topic I've seen in a long time. Instead of going and talking to him, seeing if you could offer your knowledge and expertise to help troubleshoot his problem or teach him, you've gone online anonymously to basically rant.
Sadly, the behaviour of people at airports has become more American... it's all about me and nobody else matters. It seems no matter how politely you approach someone these days, the second you make any slight suggestion towards the fact they may have done something untoward, you get abuse in return. Try to talk to someone about how ill-advised it is to run an engine while parked in a hangar. Try to tell someone that turning a running aircraft towards someone else's door blows dirt into their hangar. Try to suggest that leaving an airplane at the pump "just for a minute" is incredibly rude.
Kind of like many smokers who thought it was their right to endanger your health with cancer causing fumes or the latest.....dog owners.

A new owner moves into a quiet neighbourhood with a barking dog and you are the problem. And plenty of them seem to think it is quite alright to drop shit on your lawn because it was picked up soon after. Maybe let the dog shit on your own lawn and then take it for a walk.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Post Reply

Return to “General Comments”