Hornet is out as option for Canada's replacement

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Hornet is out as option for Canada's replacement

Post by schnitzel2k3 »

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/boeing ... -1.6262851

Boeing has been told that its bid to replace Canada's aging CF-18s with a new fleet of the American company's Super Hornet fighter jets did not meet the federal government's requirements.

Three sources from industry and government say the message was delivered Wednesday as the other two companies competing for the $19 billion contract — U.S. defence giant Lockheed Martin and Swedish firm Saab — were told they met the government's requirements.

The three sources were all granted anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss these matters publicly.

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The Department of National Defence and Public Services and Procurement Canada, which is managing the competition on behalf of the federal government, did not respond to requests for comment on Thursday.

Companies had been ordered to show their fighter jet was able to meet the military's requirements for missions at home and abroad, but also that winning the contract would result in substantial economic benefits to Canada.

But while Boeing's failure to meet the requirements would appear to disqualify the Super Hornet from the competition — leaving only Lockheed Martin's F-35 and Saab's Gripen fighter jet in the running — none of the companies have been told whether they are still in or out.

A Boeing spokesperson said the company would reserve comment pending official notification from the government.

News that one of the two U.S. companies competing for the contract failed to meet one or more of the requirements is the latest twist in what has already been a long and often unpredictable road toward replacing Canada's CF-18s.

Many observers had seen the Super Hornet and F-35 as the only real competition because of Canada's close relationship with the United States, which includes using fighter jets together to defend North American aerospace on a daily basis.....
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Re: Hornet is out as option for Canada's replacement

Post by freakonature »

Could that explain the new lumber tariff?
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Re: Hornet is out as option for Canada's replacement

Post by schnitzel2k3 »

freakonature wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:24 pm Could that explain the new lumber tariff?
Possibly, that and lack of support of reciprocal auto agreements.

But they still have a horse in the race. So 2 single engine fighters, worlds apart in design.

Interesting.
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Re: Hornet is out as option for Canada's replacement

Post by Old fella »

I know nothing about fighter jets however I do understand politics. This was certainly a convenient announcement just after Americans slapped double tariffs on our lumber, combined with the shit show recent auto manufacturing on rebates for electric cars. Throw in the “ Buy American” policies of the US of A ,this(Hornet) is a definite shot across the Biden bow politicking from Canada, didn’t JT say in 2015 the F-35 wasn’t an option. Where tis all ends up is beyond me but SAAB is left standing. Could be quite interesting methinks.
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Re: Hornet is out as option for Canada's replacement

Post by mijbil »

Old fella wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:19 pm I know nothing about fighter jets however I do understand politics. This was certainly a convenient announcement just after Americans slapped double tariffs on our lumber, combined with the shit show recent auto manufacturing on rebates for electric cars. Throw in the “ Buy American” policies of the US of A ,this(Hornet) is a definite shot across the Biden bow politicking from Canada, didn’t JT say in 2015 the F-35 wasn’t an option. Where tis all ends up is beyond me but SAAB is left standing. Could be quite interesting methinks.
And/or payback for Boeing shutting down USA sales of the CS220, (now the Airbus 220)....but that's another tale.
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Re: Hornet is out as option for Canada's replacement

Post by schnitzel2k3 »

mijbil wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:58 pm
Old fella wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:19 pm I know nothing about fighter jets however I do understand politics. This was certainly a convenient announcement just after Americans slapped double tariffs on our lumber, combined with the shit show recent auto manufacturing on rebates for electric cars. Throw in the “ Buy American” policies of the US of A ,this(Hornet) is a definite shot across the Biden bow politicking from Canada, didn’t JT say in 2015 the F-35 wasn’t an option. Where tis all ends up is beyond me but SAAB is left standing. Could be quite interesting methinks.
And/or payback for Boeing shutting down USA sales of the CS220, (now the Airbus 220)....but that's another tale.
👍🏻

I remember that being a condition within the bid itself; whether the company has caused any negative economic activity for Canadian businesses (it had a different title altogether, but I'm still waking up)...

When this all started, I thought there was only one option - the Super Hornet, despite it's already 'antique' late 4th gen airframe. Surprised to see it fall at number 3.

Gotta be honest, even though it makes no sense for Canada I'm rooting for Saab (in the sense of tarnishing relations further with U.S). Good chance J.T is going to pass the buck or walk back F35 comments with 🐊 tears.
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Re: Hornet is out as option for Canada's replacement

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I thought we already replaced our Hornets with Hornets.
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Re: Hornet is out as option for Canada's replacement

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‘Bob’ wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:53 pm I thought we already replaced our Hornets with Hornets.
Did those Aussie Hornets even make the flight line yet?
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Re: Hornet is out as option for Canada's replacement

Post by North Shore »

^ Yes, but they keep wanting to fly inverted, so they're a little bit of a handful...
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Re: Hornet is out as option for Canada's replacement

Post by frosti »

There goes the "we need two engines for Canadas vastness" non sense out the window. SAAB doesn't meet key security requirements so the F35 being picked is just a matter of time. It was always by far the top choice and this stupid competition was 100% politics.
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Re: Hornet is out as option for Canada's replacement

Post by Big Pistons Forever »

First flight of the F 35 was 2006. 15 years later it is still not fully mission capable with over 100 significant defects, has an average serviceability rate of less than 60 % and cost USD 45,000/hr to fly, almost 3 times the cost of an F18. Sounds prefect for the RCAF :roll:
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Re: Hornet is out as option for Canada's replacement

Post by schnitzel2k3 »

North Shore wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 7:15 am ^ Yes, but they keep wanting to fly inverted, so they're a little bit of a handful...
I see what you did there... :lol:
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Re: Hornet is out as option for Canada's replacement

Post by schnitzel2k3 »

frosti wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 10:16 am There goes the "we need two engines for Canadas vastness" non sense out the window. SAAB doesn't meet key security requirements so the F35 being picked is just a matter of time. It was always by far the top choice and this stupid competition was 100% politics.
I'm honestly not sure. What key mission requirements does the Saab miss vs the F-35? I'd be surprised if it had glaring short comings to it's security capability. If it did, it would've been tossed out early on in the process like the Eurofighter and Rafale.
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Re: Hornet is out as option for Canada's replacement

Post by co-joe »

frosti wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 10:16 am There goes the "we need two engines for Canadas vastness" non sense out the window. SAAB doesn't meet key security requirements so the F35 being picked is just a matter of time. It was always by far the top choice and this stupid competition was 100% politics.
Exactly why we should just buy 100 Vipers and be done with it. Keep a few FA 18's around for those Arctic patrols that supposedly need 2 engines.
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Re: Hornet is out as option for Canada's replacement

Post by SpyPilot »

Been nearly a year since AuxBatOn posted. I always enjoyed his input, especially on this topic.
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Re: Hornet is out as option for Canada's replacement

Post by frosti »

SpyPilot wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:59 am Been nearly a year since AuxBatOn posted. I always enjoyed his input, especially on this topic.
Probably got tired of all the "experts" on this forum and their drivel on two-engines, multi-fleets and cost savings. Just look at the uneducated garbage in this thread! :lol: :lol: People think with emotions not logic and facts. :rolleyes:
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Re: Hornet is out as option for Canada's replacement

Post by Big Pistons Forever »

frosti wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:55 am
SpyPilot wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:59 am Been nearly a year since AuxBatOn posted. I always enjoyed his input, especially on this topic.
Probably got tired of all the "experts" on this forum and their drivel on two-engines, multi-fleets and cost savings. Just look at the uneducated garbage in this thread! :lol: :lol: People think with emotions not logic and facts. :rolleyes:
First flight of the F 35 was 2006. 15 years later it is still not fully mission capable with over 100 significant defects, has an average serviceability rate of less than 60 % and cost USD 45,000/hr to fly, almost 3 times the cost of an F18
What facts did I get wrong ?
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Re: Hornet is out as option for Canada's replacement

Post by schnitzel2k3 »

frosti wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:55 am
SpyPilot wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 12:59 am Been nearly a year since AuxBatOn posted. I always enjoyed his input, especially on this topic.
Probably got tired of all the "experts" on this forum and their drivel on two-engines, multi-fleets and cost savings. Just look at the uneducated garbage in this thread! :lol: :lol: People think with emotions not logic and facts. :rolleyes:
So why don't you educate instead of criticize people's views.
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Re: Hornet is out as option for Canada's replacement

Post by ‘Bob’ »

frosti wrote:
SpyPilot wrote: Been nearly a year since AuxBatOn posted. I always enjoyed his input, especially on this topic.
Probably got tired of all the "experts" on this forum and their drivel on two-engines, multi-fleets and cost savings. Just look at the uneducated garbage in this thread! :lol: :lol: People think with emotions not logic and facts. :rolleyes:
Aren’t you like, just a tech or something?

There were Hornet drivers who didn’t agree with Aux Bat.

He also wasn’t exactly impartial in his analysis. Credential waving only takes you so far.
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Re: Hornet is out as option for Canada's replacement

Post by Old fella »

Canada has danced outside the US of A on military procurement aka Airbus C-295 and CH-149 Cormorant and maybe they will go same route on fighter acquisition subject to of course what the technical experts doing the evaluations say and recommend. Probably isn’t an overriding issue amongst the general electorate unless scandal happens because of palms greased and pockets lined.
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