Why is AC allowed to get away with overselling flights?

[Longtimer]

Thing is, the seats are paid for whether or not anyone shows up for the flight. What they are trying to do is maximize their revenue, which means 2 or more tickets for every seat.

Westjet gets you by giving the first few customers a cheap seat, using advertising that gives the impression that all the seats are cheap, but in my experience, charging more than A/C. Besides, who wants to make 4 or 5 stops to get from Ottawa to YVR? No-frills doesn't mean cheaper.

Deal with it.

The seats are not paid for if the passengers don't show up. AC's full fares include full refunds and no penalty if you don't turn up for your booked flight.

[wirez]

Red alerts are real, and not company policy.
Also that comment about AC FAs is insulting.

Most oversold flights go off without any problems.

[LH]

xsbank -----I've travelled once a month from Winnipeg to Ft. St John, BC. WJ charges approximately $167(with all the add-ons) on a Tuesday, Wednesday, Thurday into Edmonton. In Edmonton, I book with CMA which costs $270-$315 into Ft St John. I can take AC direct Winnipeg-FSJ for slightly over $900. Guess which airline I've been using to make those once-a-month trips with for the last two years? If you can find a better deal with AC for 12 months a year, then I please ask you to contact me. I'll also take the seating room on a 737-700 over the "sardine-like" seating of an AC CRJ making the same trip.

When I make that trip, I'll also get into destination many hours before the same AC flight arrives.

[x_atc]

The fact that Westjet does not overbook is one of many reasons why I haven't flown AC in years, and am in no rush to unless I have no other option. The last thing I need at the beginning or end of a trip is the stress of walking up to the counter, hoping that the seat *that I paid for* is still available.

Overselling seats is just another reason why AC doesn't get it. As Westjet continues to grow, they will eventually bury AC and it's antiquated approach to the airline business.

+1

[whiteguy]

The fact that Westjet does not overbook is one of many reasons why I haven't flown AC in years, and am in no rush to unless I have no other option. The last thing I need at the beginning or end of a trip is the stress of walking up to the counter, hoping that the seat *that I paid for* is still available.

Overselling seats is just another reason why AC doesn't get it. As Westjet continues to grow, they will eventually bury AC and it's antiquated approach to the airline business.

+1

And 7 years later AC still going strong, had to dig deep for this thread hey......

[DBC]

The fact that Westjet does not overbook is one of many reasons why I haven't flown AC in years, and am in no rush to unless I have no other option. The last thing I need at the beginning or end of a trip is the stress of walking up to the counter, hoping that the seat *that I paid for* is still available.

Overselling seats is just another reason why AC doesn't get it. As Westjet continues to grow, they will eventually bury AC and it's antiquated approach to the airline business.

+1

2546 days, I really hope you weren't reading all the topics that far back.

[bmc]

Every airline oversells their flights.

I don't think Westjet does.

Every smart airline oversells. Empty seat don't pay much revenue.

[SM16]

Can I ask something?

Does anyone in this forum work for a major airline, not as a pilot or a FA, but someone in management?

The reason I ask is because everyone seems to know so much about this issue and other issues with airlines and have some sort of say thinking that they know how to make the company better or that the company is heading down into the gutter.

I would assume that what Air Canada and, as some would say "95% of other airlines", are doing has to be working, or they wouldn't be doing it.

If you don't like the way something is run, don't fly with them.

[bmc]

I've been in airline management for 30 years with a number of airlines (Nordair, CP, Canadian, Gulf Air) and the past decade IATA. I oversaw a component of interline pricing/settlement for the industry until three years ago.

I still prefer taildraggers and float flying.

[CID]

Overselling has been standard practice for decades. I'm surprised that some people are still surprised by this. Like any other element of the airline business, we must keep in mind that overselling is a choice. It's not mandatory. Some airlines that do not oversell as a rule do so for competitive reasons.

In the case of Westjet versus Air Canada, one needs only to look at the typical passenger(s) on those airlines. Air Canada has a much more extensive route system and higher frequencies on most of those routes. This is quite attractive to business flyers. That's why I tend to fly Air Canada domestically MUCH more than Westjet for business purposes.

Business travelers tend to have much more variability in their booking habits. I've cancelled or rescheduled flights mere minutes before departure and depending on the fare its fully or partially recoverable. If I manage to cancel within 2 hours of departure, at worst I get a credit and/or need to pay a change fee and fare difference.

So that means that a few people don't show up when the airplane is ready to launch and the stand-by people get a reprieve.

"Back in the day" this wasn't as big of an issue as airlines rarely operated with full airplanes. That has all changed. A few empty seats can mean the difference between operating in the black or red.

Westjet has more breathing room in this regard than Air Canada since their operating costs are lower so they can pull back on the over-sell idea and their airplanes tend to be filled with Mr. and Mrs. citizen that booked their tickets months ago and are going to see family on the west coast. Nor do they have business class or first class or premium service that corresponds to the Air Canada offerings. It all factors in to the equation.

[bmc]

With Westjet doing more code shares, the overbooking issues will be prevalent. AA has no shows and this will appear in the free sell arrangement, I assume, Westjet has in place. Free sale arrangements have inventory mapping, so that when an AA passenger asks for a seat that the fare is booked in Q class, for example, Q may be mapled to Westjet's L class. Free sale is the easiest code share arrangement to maintain. But, no shows will be no shows, and to ensure that they optimze revenue, they will over sell a flight if it historically goes out with empty seats. he over boking profile is dependant on the istory that particular flight, the booking trends, the seasonality, etc. I would by stunned if hey didn't oversell.

Overselling levels are not set to leave passengers behind. It's part rocket science and artistry that gets it right. There are lots of providers of revenue management systems that control this to acceptable levels, such that passengers rarely see it.

Overbooking a 250 seat airplane by 50 seats means nothing, other than the known expectation that the flight will go out full and ot leave anyone behind. It's really a non issue and nothng t be shocked by. That said, if you get it wrong, you piss people off.

Any of you with airlines will have experienced flying standby on holidays, knowing the flight is oversold. More times than not, you get on.

[xsbank]

7 years ago! Geez... Cat had hardly hit puberty when this started. There should be a statute of limitations.

[goldeneagle]

I've been in airline management for 30 years with a number of airlines

I've done some software for analysis of booking ratios over the years. There is a lot that goes into it. But digging up old threads, that's a new online marketing twist.

It is a marketing tactic we have started suggesting to some of our clients, something that was irrelavent a few years ago. If you want to stir up negativity regarding the competition, hire some young kid with excellent google skills, and task them with perusing forums all over the internet, digging up age old threads and get them back into the top of forum lists. Works well with phpbb style systems, where the most recent post goes to the top of the list. the strategy is pretty simple overall.

1) using deep search methods, dig up old posts, and get them back to the 'top of the list' by adding to the thread.
2) using carefully crafted top level searches, hit the search engines from hundreds of directions, using a query crafted to pull the recently promoted threads to the top of the search list. Ranking relavence goes up due to the number of queries that have been hit, and voila, soon you get lots of things 'popping up' all over the place, that have all the appearance of unhappy customers all over the place, all directing negative comments at your competition.

it's almost a 'free money' marketing strategy, takes almost nothing in terms of resources, and can create significant sways in opinion.

The real jackpot comes, when you dig up an old video of somebody trashing customer service at a competitor, then it gets picked up by some celebrity twitter feed and goes viral. It's a free money marketing bonanza.

[Beefitarian]

Can I apply online?

I don't want to work for air Canada though. I googled them and their customer service is nasty.

[CFR]

Can I apply online?

I don't want to work for air Canada though. I googled them and their customer service is nasty.

I wonder what a Westjet cabin briefing a la Beef would be like?

[Egres]

Dont be fooled by WJ they also over book there flight !! I was flying with them last week edmonton to moncton via hamilton and in hamilton the FA was saying that there was 8 people waiting to go to moncton.... I dont know if its regular pratice or not ....

[Beefitarian]

I wonder what a Westjet cabin briefing a la Beef would be like?

Probably too long and off topic.

Ladies and gentlemen, this is the Captain apologizing for the delay in departure. We'll be getting some fuel then promptly get this flight underway.

[CFR]

Dont be fooled by WJ they also over book there flight !! I was flying with them last week edmonton to moncton via hamilton and in hamilton the FA was saying that there was 8 people waiting to go to moncton.... I dont know if its regular pratice or not ....

Westjet books standby, it could have been them.

[aerodude]

Why is AC allowed to get away? Pure and simple: people keep buying tickets at AC even though they complain. Why should a company stop doing it if it aint broke. A little bad marketing might come along but the increased substantial revenue with this tactic outweighs it.

[EA757]

June 12th 2013

http://globalnews.ca/news/636124/westje ... -boarding/