The ironic thing is that as WJ continues to grow, their way of doing business will start to reflect AC's more and more. WJ seems to be moving away from the low cost carrier business model as they're expanding into bigger airports, the USA/Hawaii, and now, talks of going to Europe. Their "ways" will evolve as they move away from the LCC business model, and begin operating more like a bigger international carrier.charlie_g wrote: As Westjet continues to grow, they will eventually bury AC and it's antiquated approach to the airline business.
Why is AC allowed to get away with overselling flights?
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TopperHarley
- Rank (9)
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"Never travel faster than your guardian angel can fly." - Mother Theresa
I don't think the LCC model precludes you from running international routes, does it? Granted, they have deviated from some aspects of Southwest's business model, but they are miles away from emulating AC.C-HRIS wrote:The ironic thing is that as WJ continues to grow, their way of doing business will start to reflect AC's more and more. WJ seems to be moving away from the low cost carrier business model as they're expanding into bigger airports, the USA/Hawaii, and now, talks of going to Europe. Their "ways" will evolve as they move away from the LCC business model, and begin operating more like a bigger international carrier.charlie_g wrote: As Westjet continues to grow, they will eventually bury AC and it's antiquated approach to the airline business.
Their way of doing business will not be in line with AC's until they hire disgruntled cabin staff, do a brutal job of cancelling/rescheduling flights, overbook seats, and generally stop giving two sh*ts about the customer that is paying their salaries.
Charlie g wrote:
Their way of doing business will not be in line with AC's until they hire disgruntled cabin staff, do a brutal job of cancelling/rescheduling flights, overbook seats, and generally stop giving two sh*ts about the customer that is paying their salaries
To come, started, started, and done.
WJ, despite the cult status it holds has its problems.
Their way of doing business will not be in line with AC's until they hire disgruntled cabin staff, do a brutal job of cancelling/rescheduling flights, overbook seats, and generally stop giving two sh*ts about the customer that is paying their salaries
To come, started, started, and done.
WJ, despite the cult status it holds has its problems.
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gonefishin'
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Maybe spend 12 seconds and you would realize your are dead wrong...Bugz wrote:For your information, neither AC nor WestJet have YOW-YVR direct flights. Each do it with one stop. If you were to book for tommorow the prices would look like this, including taxes:xsbank wrote: Westjet gets you by giving the first few customers a cheap seat, using advertising that gives the impression that all the seats are cheap, but in my experience, charging more than A/C. Besides, who wants to make 4 or 5 stops to get from Ottawa to YVR? No-frills doesn't mean cheaper.
Deal with it.
AC: $ 539.19
WesJet: $ 497.85
Spend the 10 seconds on research next time
Flight: Ottawa (ON) - YOW to Vancouver (BC) - YVR
Date: Monday July 17, 2006
Flight Aircraft Departure Arrival Travel Time Stops Via
AC 1185 320 06:30 08:43 5 hr 13 mn 0
AC 163 321 08:20 10:33 5 hr 13 mn 0
AC 189 320 13:30 15:43 5 hr 13 mn 0
AC 139 320 17:55 20:08 5 hr 13 mn 0
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flystraightin
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Overselling by 50 seats...yes that is possible, and believe me I've seen up to 80 seats on one AC flight....but is was a B747 (full pax version - est 380 paxs) and that flight to Asia from YYZ was notorious for no show factor, so hence such a large oversell....nowadays that has gone down to 20-30 seats on A330/A340s (approx 300 seats, ie. 10% oversell), and proprtionally the same on smaller jets....still around 10% more or less.....
and as far as 'telling people', well the sad thing is - its on your flap of your ticket holder, is just that people don't bother reading today....
...I dont like it my self, but thats the reality of cut throat, for every penny, business......why??? Because we ALL want to fly for PEANUTS...well there you are gentlmen and gals
and as far as 'telling people', well the sad thing is - its on your flap of your ticket holder, is just that people don't bother reading today....
...I dont like it my self, but thats the reality of cut throat, for every penny, business......why??? Because we ALL want to fly for PEANUTS...well there you are gentlmen and gals
As has already been illustrated in the points above, most airlines practice some form of overbooking.
Outside of the airline industry, this is also practiced by both major car rental companies, and hotels. Anywhere which has a 'perishable' product such as a car, hotel room, or airplane seat that will, once time elapses, be worthless if not sold, has to minimise those losses.
You could also look on over-booking in a positive light in a number of ways.
1. On many routes, there are very high no-show factors. BA to India has a staggering 35%+ no show factor. Can you imagine how pissed off you would be if you could never book a flight on BA because they were always 'full' but then in reality 1/3rd of the seats went out empty. Overbooking allows airlines to accommodate more people on popular flights, when factoring in the no-shows, than not overbooking.
2. Believe it or not, many people enjoy being 'bumped'! I worked for a carrier whom routinely overbooked the Friday evening 6pm flight from Dublin - London and whereby you could almost guarantee that if you wanted to be offered (hefty) compensation to take a later flight, just book a seat on said flight! I know many frequent travellers who made out like bandits - and good for them!
For an airline who overbooks responsibly, 9 times out of 10 it will never be an issue, and they will have a) allowed more people to get on that busy flight and b) maximised revenue and minimised wastage and therefore cost which would have otherwise be passed on to the consumer.
For that other 1 time out of 10, what seperates the 'good' airlines from the 'bad' is the way that they handle this. $200, even $500 in cash or future travel credits plus meals, plus hotel, plus confirmed business class upgrade on next flight... I've seen all of these offered, and you can guarantee there'll be plenty of (happy) takers.
Outside of the airline industry, this is also practiced by both major car rental companies, and hotels. Anywhere which has a 'perishable' product such as a car, hotel room, or airplane seat that will, once time elapses, be worthless if not sold, has to minimise those losses.
You could also look on over-booking in a positive light in a number of ways.
1. On many routes, there are very high no-show factors. BA to India has a staggering 35%+ no show factor. Can you imagine how pissed off you would be if you could never book a flight on BA because they were always 'full' but then in reality 1/3rd of the seats went out empty. Overbooking allows airlines to accommodate more people on popular flights, when factoring in the no-shows, than not overbooking.
2. Believe it or not, many people enjoy being 'bumped'! I worked for a carrier whom routinely overbooked the Friday evening 6pm flight from Dublin - London and whereby you could almost guarantee that if you wanted to be offered (hefty) compensation to take a later flight, just book a seat on said flight! I know many frequent travellers who made out like bandits - and good for them!
For an airline who overbooks responsibly, 9 times out of 10 it will never be an issue, and they will have a) allowed more people to get on that busy flight and b) maximised revenue and minimised wastage and therefore cost which would have otherwise be passed on to the consumer.
For that other 1 time out of 10, what seperates the 'good' airlines from the 'bad' is the way that they handle this. $200, even $500 in cash or future travel credits plus meals, plus hotel, plus confirmed business class upgrade on next flight... I've seen all of these offered, and you can guarantee there'll be plenty of (happy) takers.
I agree, wasn't directed at you personally -- just at the managers who use ridiculous practices like that and pretend it is acceptable. Cat would probably call them cretins. (Where is Cat, btw?)Mig29 wrote:What else do you want me to say??
After all those comments above you...you still don't get it? Yes, I get it - you don't like it...me TOO! But its legal, and your only alternative is to fly another airline.
You'd also have to avoid United, Northwest, American, US Airways, Alaska Airlines, Delta, Lufthansa, KLM, British Airways, and 95% of the other airlines in the world.Mig29 wrote:...its legal, and your only alternative is to fly another airline.
You'd also have to avoid booking a car with Hertz, Avis, Budget, Alamo or National (all of whom to the best of my knowledge practice overbooking, I know absolutely from personal experience that Alamo and National do!)
Oh, and you'd also have to avoid most of the major hotel chains, Sheraton, Hilton, Marriott.....
Travel industry - overbooking - fact of life
The seats are not paid for if the passengers don't show up. AC's full fares include full refunds and no penalty if you don't turn up for your booked flight.xsbank wrote:Thing is, the seats are paid for whether or not anyone shows up for the flight. What they are trying to do is maximize their revenue, which means 2 or more tickets for every seat.
Westjet gets you by giving the first few customers a cheap seat, using advertising that gives the impression that all the seats are cheap, but in my experience, charging more than A/C. Besides, who wants to make 4 or 5 stops to get from Ottawa to YVR? No-frills doesn't mean cheaper.
Deal with it.
xsbank -----I've travelled once a month from Winnipeg to Ft. St John, BC. WJ charges approximately $167(with all the add-ons) on a Tuesday, Wednesday, Thurday into Edmonton. In Edmonton, I book with CMA which costs $270-$315 into Ft St John. I can take AC direct Winnipeg-FSJ for slightly over $900. Guess which airline I've been using to make those once-a-month trips with for the last two years? If you can find a better deal with AC for 12 months a year, then I please ask you to contact me. I'll also take the seating room on a 737-700 over the "sardine-like" seating of an AC CRJ making the same trip.
When I make that trip, I'll also get into destination many hours before the same AC flight arrives.
When I make that trip, I'll also get into destination many hours before the same AC flight arrives.
Re:
+1charlie_g wrote:The fact that Westjet does not overbook is one of many reasons why I haven't flown AC in years, and am in no rush to unless I have no other option. The last thing I need at the beginning or end of a trip is the stress of walking up to the counter, hoping that the seat *that I paid for* is still available.
Overselling seats is just another reason why AC doesn't get it. As Westjet continues to grow, they will eventually bury AC and it's antiquated approach to the airline business.
Re: Re:
And 7 years later AC still going strong, had to dig deep for this thread hey......x_atc wrote:+1charlie_g wrote:The fact that Westjet does not overbook is one of many reasons why I haven't flown AC in years, and am in no rush to unless I have no other option. The last thing I need at the beginning or end of a trip is the stress of walking up to the counter, hoping that the seat *that I paid for* is still available.
Overselling seats is just another reason why AC doesn't get it. As Westjet continues to grow, they will eventually bury AC and it's antiquated approach to the airline business.
