training bond legality

bandit1 · Post by **bandit1** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 9:42 am

Hi guys,

What's the deal with training bonds or promissary notes being legally binding in a court of law?

Snowgoose · Post by **Snowgoose** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 9:49 am

What's the matter, people walking out on your 4 year bonds?

Walker · Post by **Walker** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 9:55 am

Just say you were drunk/stoned/emotionally distraught at the time of signing it. You therefore had diminished capacity, and thus anything you signed is non binding.

(NOTE: for people in the future go to the pub/beer store RIGHT before signing anything big, buy a LOT of booz and keep the receipts. Then if in 8 years it becomes inconvenient to have signed said item, you have an out.)

PS: you could also go to a councilor/shrink before hand (DO NOT TELL THEM YOU ARE ABOUT TO SIGN SOMETHING BIG) but explain how horrible your life is and how upset you are. That will be documented on your file; and once again if in 8 years it becomes inconvenient then you can have those records pulled and POOF gone.

Just be sure you have shielded your assets before hand in case of a law suit;

cyyz · Post by **cyyz** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 9:55 am

Snowgoose wrote:What's the matter, people walking out on your 4 year bonds?

I think he's the one who wants to run...

bandit1 · Post by **bandit1** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 9:59 am

Anybody know anyone who faught a training bond/ promissary note and the company took them to court over it?

groundtoflightdeck · Post by **groundtoflightdeck** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 10:05 am

You can use your state of mind to void the contract only if you promptly retract your agreement upon becoming sane (sobre) again.

Walker · Post by **Walker** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 10:09 am

groundtoflightdeck wrote:You can use your state of mind to void the contract only if you promptly retract your agreement upon becoming sane (sobre) again.

I don't think so, im 99% sure you can pull it out whenever if you set up your story right. Then again anyone trusting legal advice from the internet really does have some issues...

Snowgoose · Post by **Snowgoose** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 10:11 am

Actually CYYZ, I think he's from LCE in YKZ

bandit1 · Post by **bandit1** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 10:14 am

Any other ways to void the training bond than being nuts, drunk or stoned? How about stupid?

cyyz · Post by **cyyz** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 10:18 am

Walker wrote:
groundtoflightdeck wrote:You can use your state of mind to void the contract only if you promptly retract your agreement upon becoming sane (sobre) again.
I don't think so, im 99% sure you can pull it out whenever if you set up your story right. Then again anyone trusting legal advice from the internet really does have some issues...

Well I do hope when you sign "drunk," and right after go out for a flight, I hope you have a back up plan, because your career is over.

asdfasd · Post by **asdfasd** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 10:37 am

1) If a company requires anything more than a 1 year training bond, then you probably don’t want to work there.

2) If a company requires a training bond of any sorts where the training is going to be relatively cheap anyways, (say under 10 000), you don’t want to work there.

Companies should be able to keep their employees solely by creating a positive environment to work in. Those that don’t will have employees leaving. Training bonds are a shackle not a reasonable compromise.

cyyz · Post by **cyyz** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 10:56 am

KFCpilot wrote:1) If a company requires anything more than a 1 year training bond, then you probably don’t want to work there.

2) If a company requires a training bond of any sorts where the training is going to be relatively cheap anyways, (say under 10 000), you don’t want to work there.

Companies should be able to keep their employees solely by creating a positive environment to work in. Those that don’t will have employees leaving. Training bonds are a shackle not a reasonable compromise.

lol

bandit1 · Post by **bandit1** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 10:58 am

I totally agree with you KFCpilot but does anyone know what happens if you decide not to pay and it goes to court who will win?

Hickory Stick · Post by **Hickory Stick** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 11:50 am

who ever has the best lawyer?

Raybanman · Post by **Raybanman** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 12:22 pm

An actual bond is a little different than a promisary note. If you've co-signed on a loan with your company, then your kinda screwed no matter which way u look at it (as far as I know). A promisary note on the other hand is a different story. I've sent copies of promisary notes that I've been asked to sign to my lawyer and been told, in short, that they aren't worth the paper they're written on. And besides, you've signed these documents under duress. If you don't sign this, you loose/don't get your job no?

Companies should be able to keep their employees solely by creating a positive environment to work in. Those that don’t will have employees leaving. Training bonds are a shackle not a reasonable compromise.

KFCPilot has a good point with this. I've worked at places under a training bond, and the reason that the companies bond is because people run, for various reasons, wether it be poor morale, pushed into weather, pushed to fly overweight, poor pay, or they just run off after bigger tin. If companies made working for them enjoyable and rewarding then these sort of situations wouldn't arise. I work for a company now that didn't require a training bond/promisary note to be trained on the twin turbine I now fly. I was asked for my word to stay for at least a year, and to not jump ship for a job on the same A/C (DHC-6). Our company has bonuses at x-mas time, above average salary for positions, and a 2 week on 1 week off schedule with overtime paid. Thats how you keep people IMHO.

Cheers,
PP

P.S. I just thought I should add that I've never bailed on a promisary note/bond, nor do I think that its ethical that anyone should do so. I do however feel that there are many companies that will use a signed training bond as a "pointy stick" as it were, having worked for at least one myself.

master switch · Post by **master switch** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 1:13 pm

bandit1 wrote:I totally agree with you KFCpilot but does anyone know what happens if you decide not to pay and it goes to court who will win?

operators cant afford lawyers. you can probably just leave.

plus whod sign 4 years on a pc12 the way things are going now!

superiorwhore · Post by **superiorwhore** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 1:41 pm

master switch wrote:
bandit1 wrote:I totally agree with you KFCpilot but does anyone know what happens if you decide not to pay and it goes to court who will win?
operators cant afford lawyers. you can probably just leave.

plus whod sign 4 years on a pc12 the way things are going now!

Wheres it say that it is for a PC12.
And quite frankly, if you were dumb enough to sign a 4 year bond, be a man and stick it out unless its your dream job that has called. This is why we have these in the industry now.

godsrcrazy · Post by **godsrcrazy** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 2:33 pm

This topic has been beat to death over the last year. They all lead to the same thing. Weasle your way out however you can. It is no wonder why these things are being shoved down our throats. You can say what you want about my word is golden. But just look at some of the responses. Then do a search on the site on this topic.

The fact is our word is not worth anything when you read things like.
Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:55 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just say you were drunk/stoned/emotionally distraught at the time of signing it. You therefore had diminished capacity, and thus anything you signed is non binding.

(NOTE: for people in the future go to the pub/beer store RIGHT before signing anything big, buy a LOT of booz and keep the receipts. Then if in 8 years it becomes inconvenient to have signed said item, you have an out.)

PS: you could also go to a councilor/shrink before hand (DO NOT TELL THEM YOU ARE ABOUT TO SIGN SOMETHING BIG) but explain how horrible your life is and how upset you are. That will be documented on your file; and once again if in 8 years it becomes inconvenient then you can have those records pulled and POOF gone.

Its also been said on these forums keep track of every infraction you can see then when you want to leave you can tell them I am leaving and if you do anything about it what out I have names and dates.

This type of crap gives us all a bad name. The fact is there are a lot of people that are no good for there word. Now we are all getting to pay the price for it.

Yes over the years I have heard of cases going to court. I have heard of just as many lossing as winning. Most of it comes down to how low will you go to get out of keeping your word.

Gurundu the Rat · Post by **Gurundu the Rat** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Do you think the company cares about your bond when its time to dump your ass? In this industry you work for you. You are on your own. If your company has staffing issues that's their problem, not yours. No one is doing you a favour by hiring you. The simple fact is they need you to fly their planes or else they don't make any money. If a company can't pay your PPC they shouldn't be in business. If you get offered something better, I say go for it. I wouldn't do any lateral moves though, make sure it's worth it. JMO

GTR

DareDevil · Post by **DareDevil** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:28 pm

Best of luck with training bonds!