Ramp checks
Does anyone know what part of CARS gives Transport the authority to perform ramp checks and what the rules are that govern such checks. Just had a weird one at Buttonville and want to start a little revolt.
Ramp Checks
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog
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Circuit-Jockey
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I have heard ridiculous accounts of BS ramp checks going on in Manitoba these days. A good source of mine told me that TC has actually crossed the line on several occasions recently. The most obnoxious and borderline illegal one I heard was this...last week, TC performs two ramp checks on different A/C from the same company, both within a few days of each other. On both checks, the inspector goes through the paperwork and A/c with a fine tooth comb. Near the end of the inspection, he had yet to find any dirt, so he went along the leading edge picking at the stall strips of the A/c. He actually started pushing quite hard on these strips and noticed that when he put enough pressure on them they moved slightly...so he then proceeded to pry his TC pen under the strip, separated it from the leading edge, and told the crew to ground the aircraft. What a f...ing joke this industry has become. The industry is hit hard enough with BS Nav Can fees, TC regulations, and fuel prices. The last thing we need is TC going around physically removing AC from service. True story. Meanwhile, other operators in that province continue to fly around in IFR weather with VFR BS fuel....go figure!!!
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Cat Driver
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You all are your own worst enemies, you wrongly assume that just because a TC inspector produces identification that he/she is in fact a TC inspector you are safe in assuming you are dealing with people of honor and intregrity.
Nothing could be further from the truth, the regulator has lost its credibility due to dishonest management corrupting the very foundation of trust between us the regulated and them the regulators.
That is why abusers of the power of the office they hold can get away with behaviour that would never be tolerated in any other industry that I know of....they do because they are protected by self serving dishonest immoral management.
Lets examine our Director General Civil Aviation.
I have in my possesion several letters from the Director General, clearly approving of and fully backing up dishonesty at the highest levels in management in Civil Aviation, this in spite of irrefutiable evidence of wrongdoing by the management in question.
So as long as you the regulated allow such behaviour to exist it will only become worse.
Fear is what these parasites rely on, and of course it works, no one stands up to them........( Well I do, but not many others seem to. )
By the way Mr. Director General Civil Aviation, should you resent my including you in the "parasite" catagory I would be pleased to plead my opinion and produce evidence to back up same any time you instruct your legal department to serve me with a writ to appear before a Federal Court to answer to my allegations......just in case you forgot, here is my name and address again so the leagal types don't become overburdened trying to figure out where to send the writ.
Charles .
290 Deer Lane
Nanaimo B.C.
V9T 4Y2
Remember our deal Mr. Director General Civil Aviation, you supply the writ and I will supply the news media to cover the trial....yours truly.... Charles .
......................................................................................................
They have no legal authority to tresspass...you must by law produce the documents required in the act. They need a search warrant to enter your airplane or property.....
If ramped in your pathetic country, Canada, I will "produce" said documents. I would only communicate enough to refuse entry until I see a search warrant.....
Cat
Nothing could be further from the truth, the regulator has lost its credibility due to dishonest management corrupting the very foundation of trust between us the regulated and them the regulators.
That is why abusers of the power of the office they hold can get away with behaviour that would never be tolerated in any other industry that I know of....they do because they are protected by self serving dishonest immoral management.
Lets examine our Director General Civil Aviation.
I have in my possesion several letters from the Director General, clearly approving of and fully backing up dishonesty at the highest levels in management in Civil Aviation, this in spite of irrefutiable evidence of wrongdoing by the management in question.
So as long as you the regulated allow such behaviour to exist it will only become worse.
Fear is what these parasites rely on, and of course it works, no one stands up to them........( Well I do, but not many others seem to. )
By the way Mr. Director General Civil Aviation, should you resent my including you in the "parasite" catagory I would be pleased to plead my opinion and produce evidence to back up same any time you instruct your legal department to serve me with a writ to appear before a Federal Court to answer to my allegations......just in case you forgot, here is my name and address again so the leagal types don't become overburdened trying to figure out where to send the writ.
Charles .
290 Deer Lane
Nanaimo B.C.
V9T 4Y2
Remember our deal Mr. Director General Civil Aviation, you supply the writ and I will supply the news media to cover the trial....yours truly.... Charles .
......................................................................................................
They have no legal authority to tresspass...you must by law produce the documents required in the act. They need a search warrant to enter your airplane or property.....
If ramped in your pathetic country, Canada, I will "produce" said documents. I would only communicate enough to refuse entry until I see a search warrant.....
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Re: Ramp Checks
Hi Wasn't Me...Wasn't Me wrote:Ramp checks
Does anyone know what part of CARS gives Transport the authority to perform ramp checks and what the rules are that govern such checks?
Actually, it is the Aeronautics Act where you will find the authority to conduct inspections. Here are a few links with the information:
Aviation Enforcement Policy Manual Chapter 2 - Inspection
Aeronautics Act - Powers to enter, seize and detain
Criminal Code - Information for search warrant (required for entry of a dwelling house)
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Cat Driver
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My one concern is the " reasonable grounds " clause in the act.
I can name several TC upper level management who would without any hesitation use that as an excuse to punish someone such as myself and I am fairly certain they would be supported right up to the top.
So for me I still go back to my foregoing opinion regarding the top position in civil Aviation, the office of the Director General. When that office condones and approves of wrongdoing and denial of due process, Which I thought was guaranteed to me under law, they shall remain in my opinion more dangerous to me than common crimminals.
And may I add I hold common crimminals in higher regard.
Cat
I can name several TC upper level management who would without any hesitation use that as an excuse to punish someone such as myself and I am fairly certain they would be supported right up to the top.
So for me I still go back to my foregoing opinion regarding the top position in civil Aviation, the office of the Director General. When that office condones and approves of wrongdoing and denial of due process, Which I thought was guaranteed to me under law, they shall remain in my opinion more dangerous to me than common crimminals.
And may I add I hold common crimminals in higher regard.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Dear Cat,
Let me say that it would surprise the shit out of me if you ever had anything good to say about TC. At least once, sometime in your long career, somebody somewhere must have been at least marginally acceptable!
Let me say that it would surprise the shit out of me if you ever had anything good to say about TC. At least once, sometime in your long career, somebody somewhere must have been at least marginally acceptable!
“Never interrupt someone doing something you said couldn’t be done.” Amelia Earhart
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just curious
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While I believe Cat is restricted under the CARS from saying anything "Nice" about TCsnoopy wrote:.... ever had anything good to say about TC. At least once, sometime in your long career, somebody somewhere must have been at least marginally acceptable!
, I can recall at least one time... Since I wasn't in the air at the time, I can't start it, like most stories, with "No shit, there I was..." But, I was there! Moncton: Late 70's/ early 80's (I'm old, I can't remember)...the Flying Club.... the Cosmo Club, the Caissie Girls, Snap- rolling the Citabria on downwind... but I digress.
I was a ramp rat at the time, not an "Airport Service Technician
" but an honest-to-God broom-pushing airplane-washing ramp rat. It was a cold damp spring evening. Did I mention this was the Maritimes? We're talking damp here! and cold... not like that 'dry cold' you get in the Antarctic but that damp plus 5 that goes through to the bone! Solo flyin was out, and the instructors, and Gerry (the shark-toothed dispatcher of legend) had given up trying to get students out of their nice warm beds for IAD trips (an instructor's ticket to the old Class II, and a shot at teaching on the twin! Twin Time!!!), and had gone home.I'd rolled the last TraumaHawk (Still new from Lockhaven!) back into the barn, and was sweeping up the fod from in front of the hangar door, contemplating the time when I'd have my instructor rating (Good God! Just Curious... an instructor?:shock: But what about the Bush?
Later... ). All was still. As only a quiet airport on a foggy day can be still.... There was, in fact, one other little worker bee. A scruffy guy, in an old leather jacket (prob'ly from a surplus store). He was older than the jacket... real old. Fifties maybe. He was wearing a T-shirt that used to be white, and GWG Wheat King Jeans, back when Jeans were straight, and pulled up high to proudly reveal your white socks. A baseball cap with an unreadable logo covered his, well, somewhat greasy hair.
He was tinkering with a battery cart, trying to get the power to a Harvard with an odd green circus paintjob. Not an airshow performer, this thing was used. He'd curse and mutter, and rub a little sandpaper across the plug-in posts. Sad really. You could see that this was one of these guys that just never had the academic smarts to be a real engineer (prob'ly failed the "Regs exam" a couple times
), and was doomed to be a 'helper' no matter where he worked in life. We never thought of guys like this as apprentices, they were just OABs. And the Harvard, too, was sad, faded, and non-cooperative.I was about to tuck it in, and head for the Bar (Located directly over my room- sometimes life really is great!), when out of the gloom comes one of those big-ass new Cessnas, a Centurian or some such... way bigger than the C172N's that I aspired to! Right out in front of MFC, breaking out on the ILS 29 right at, er. .. minimums
It taxies powerfully to the MFC pumps, growling through the evening stillness as he waits for the turbocharger to cool down (MMM... turbocharger
). Finally he shuts down. It's crisp enough, and through the fog I can hear, (over the tinkling as the engine cooled, and the hum of the gyros spooling down) this guy snap his fingers at the old guy... "Hey Kid!" (Helpful career hint- Old Airport Bums are always named 'Kid')"Help you Mister?" was all he said. OABs aren't chatty guys, except at the Bar.
"Yeah dammit, I need gas... a lotta gas, I'm ferrying over to France, and I want to get this thing filled before the Transport Guy gets here. Fill the wings, then fill the bladder,then fill the wings again when the tanks have settled."
"Sure, no problem... France you say?"
"Yeah, I figure I can make Narrsaruak tonight, but I want enough fuel so that if I blow the approach, I can carry on to Keflavik. But I need to fuel up fast, so the bonehead Transport guy doesn't know I'm like, 1000 overgross with gas "
The OAB starts pumping, and pumping... I've never seen anything smaller than a DC3 take on this much fuel! OAB guy does the wings, then the bladder, then the tips, then the wings again- Christ, if this guy had had an empty thermos, he would have hucked an extra couple litres in it! Finally, its done, and I run the guys credit card bill (OABs don't handle money). This guy is clearly caffeinated. He rushes in to empty his bladder, and grabs my Gran Torino to go file a plan. When he comes back, OAB guy is stilll sanding away at the external power posts, and I'm just rolling the hangar door closed. The guy is just about dancing around, he's so eager to get away.
Finally, after what must have been a minute and a half real time (but several hours to him), the guy explodes: "Christ!, Where the Hell is this Transport Guy? I need him to stamp the Ferry permit or the Brits'll turn me around! I can't wait much longer fer this Bonehead, the tires can't handle the sideload from the weight!" I give him my best 'beats the hell out of me' look, and lock the hangar door. He turns to look at OAB guy, since I clearly don't understand English and says: "Look, I was supposed to meet this Don McQuinn asshole from Transport. He's gotta inspect the airplane, and interview me, but I gotta get outta here while Narrsarsuak is still good! Do you know if he's on his way, or can you phone him for me, I gotta get the Hell outta here!" "Pompous asshole prob'ly, he's the regional manager, prob'ly thinks he's some kinda God around here."
OAG guy wipes his hand off on his jeans (getting off most of the grease) and slowly reaches over and shakes the guys hand and says: "Well, actually... that'd be me! "
Over the Audible Clang (as this guy's testicles went up into his throat
), I could hear Don say, "1000 over eh? That's all fuel, right? Got your form? I'll stamp it, that's really the only question I needed answered anyway!"The Harvard? He'd just bought it
So, yeah, there is the occaisional "Good Guy in TC". Quite a few, if you look hard enough.
I remember Don. Indeed a good guy. Used to be at all the parties in the upstairs bar when I was there; so was his wife if I remember correctly.
Was Joe Mundee still the bartender? Walter McCann still there?
Left there in early '73. Still remember some of those places (and even some addresses)The Newfies and CB'ers took me downtown (and all over)to teach me proper English!
Anyway , they (TC, MOT, DOT etc.)did have a good bunch in that region.
Was Joe Mundee still the bartender? Walter McCann still there?
Left there in early '73. Still remember some of those places (and even some addresses)The Newfies and CB'ers took me downtown (and all over)to teach me proper English!
Anyway , they (TC, MOT, DOT etc.)did have a good bunch in that region.
CD
Thank you for the references they are most helpful. I found the ramp inspection weird because I felt helpless and the questions kept coming without any time to reply. It was intimidating so say the least. Anyway I think there are other problems with this occurence that will best be handled by lawers.
Thanks everyone for your input.
Completley pissed off
Thank you for the references they are most helpful. I found the ramp inspection weird because I felt helpless and the questions kept coming without any time to reply. It was intimidating so say the least. Anyway I think there are other problems with this occurence that will best be handled by lawers.
Thanks everyone for your input.
Completley pissed off
I wish I could spell
qqqqqqqqqq
Last edited by A.W. on Mon Aug 09, 2004 10:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
My Bud the Cat
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Cat Driver
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Snoopy, Snoopy, Snoopy:
If you read all my comments regarding TC you will find that I am one of the regulators most sincere supporters.
However when we have individuals within the regulator who make a mockery of the system by abusing their power and outright lying to further their own personal agendas someone must at least expose them.
There are many dedicated and sincere people in TC, please go back and read my comments that were addressed to the Director General civil Aviation.
As I stated it is my opinion that based on documents that I have in my possession he is condoning and approving of immoral behaviour by several named individuals. Therefore I feel it is only fair to ask the following simple question.
By his condoning and approving of immoral behaviour by named individuals within TC, does it not stand to reason that his behaviour is also immoral and he is demeaning the office he holds?
I can produce several " good " TC officials under supbonea (sp? ) who will testify on my behalf and provide testimony to back up my allegations.
Two things are preventing me from settling this matter, fear of their own management on the part of my sources within TC and I need the Director General to front up the money to get this in a Federal Court. Once in court under oath, I am certain the TC officials will testify truthfully....especially considering the questions they would be asked.
How more fair could you expect me to be?
I am sorry that so many of my colleauges see me as someone that is detrimental to our industry...............or is accepting a few dishonest corrupt TC personnel just part of being in aviation?
Furthermore I am not ashamed of my career and record as a mechanic and pilot.
I just abhor self serving dishonest Government officials. And the honest Government officials also abhor them.
Cat
If you read all my comments regarding TC you will find that I am one of the regulators most sincere supporters.
However when we have individuals within the regulator who make a mockery of the system by abusing their power and outright lying to further their own personal agendas someone must at least expose them.
There are many dedicated and sincere people in TC, please go back and read my comments that were addressed to the Director General civil Aviation.
As I stated it is my opinion that based on documents that I have in my possession he is condoning and approving of immoral behaviour by several named individuals. Therefore I feel it is only fair to ask the following simple question.
By his condoning and approving of immoral behaviour by named individuals within TC, does it not stand to reason that his behaviour is also immoral and he is demeaning the office he holds?
I can produce several " good " TC officials under supbonea (sp? ) who will testify on my behalf and provide testimony to back up my allegations.
Two things are preventing me from settling this matter, fear of their own management on the part of my sources within TC and I need the Director General to front up the money to get this in a Federal Court. Once in court under oath, I am certain the TC officials will testify truthfully....especially considering the questions they would be asked.
How more fair could you expect me to be?
I am sorry that so many of my colleauges see me as someone that is detrimental to our industry...............or is accepting a few dishonest corrupt TC personnel just part of being in aviation?
Furthermore I am not ashamed of my career and record as a mechanic and pilot.
I just abhor self serving dishonest Government officials. And the honest Government officials also abhor them.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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A Regulator
- Rank 3
- Posts: 199
- Joined: Sat May 01, 2004 6:21 pm
Ramp Checks
Further to Inspections/Ramp Checks - each department has what is called "Delegation of Authority" which allows Inspectors to ask/do certain authorities on behalf of the Minister.
Pursuant to the indicated sections of the Canadian Aviation Regulations.
1. 103.02(1) To give reasonable notice to the owner or operator of an aircraft to make the aircraft available for inspection in accordance with the notice.
103.02(2) To demand that a person who
is the holder of a Canadian aviation document,
is the owner, operator or pilot-in-command of an aircraft in respect of which a Canadian aviation document, technical record or other document is kept, or
has in possession a Canadian aviation document, technical record or other document relating to an aircraft or a commercial air service
produce the Canadian aviation document, technical record or other document for inspection in accordance with the terms of a demand
Pursuant to the indicated sections of the Canadian Aviation Regulations.
1. 103.02(1) To give reasonable notice to the owner or operator of an aircraft to make the aircraft available for inspection in accordance with the notice.
103.02(2) To demand that a person who
is the holder of a Canadian aviation document,
is the owner, operator or pilot-in-command of an aircraft in respect of which a Canadian aviation document, technical record or other document is kept, or
has in possession a Canadian aviation document, technical record or other document relating to an aircraft or a commercial air service
produce the Canadian aviation document, technical record or other document for inspection in accordance with the terms of a demand
Didn't Transport go bananas recently and start threatening pilots out west with with fines of $500 PER DAY if they didn't produce their personal pilot's log book?
It's probably just me, but for some oddd reason, I don't enjoy being threatened or bullied by someone who likely struggled and failed to find or maintain a job in the private sector, and who's salary is being paid by my tax dollars.
This viewpoint is considered by Transport as "having a bad attitude".
It's probably just me, but for some oddd reason, I don't enjoy being threatened or bullied by someone who likely struggled and failed to find or maintain a job in the private sector, and who's salary is being paid by my tax dollars.
This viewpoint is considered by Transport as "having a bad attitude".
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A Regulator
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Failure to produce Logbooks
Well I have not heard that one but the requirement for Personal Logs are:
Personal Logs
401.08(1) Every applicant for, and every holder of, a flight crew permit, licence or rating shall maintain a personal log in accordance with subsection (2) and with the personnel licensing standards for the documentation of
(a) experience acquired in respect of the issuance of the flight crew permit, licence or rating; and
(amended 2001/03/01; previous version)
(b) recency.
(2) A personal log that is maintained for the purposes referred to in paragraphs (1)(a) and (b) shall contain the holder's name and the following information in respect of each flight:
(a) the date of the flight;
(b) the type of aircraft and its registration mark;
(c) the flight crew position in which the holder acted;
(d) the flight conditions with respect to day, night, VFR and IFR;
(e) in the case of a flight in a aeroplane or helicopter, the place of departure and the place of arrival;
(f) in the case of a flight in an aeroplane, all of the intermediate take-offs and landings;
(g) the flight time;
(h) in the case of a flight in a glider, the method of launch used for the flight; and
(i) in the case of a flight in a balloon, the method of inflation used for the flight.
(3) No person shall make an entry in a personal log unless the person
(a) is the holder of the log; or
(b) has been authorized to make the entry by the holder of the log.
Personal Logs
401.08(1) Every applicant for, and every holder of, a flight crew permit, licence or rating shall maintain a personal log in accordance with subsection (2) and with the personnel licensing standards for the documentation of
(a) experience acquired in respect of the issuance of the flight crew permit, licence or rating; and
(amended 2001/03/01; previous version)
(b) recency.
(2) A personal log that is maintained for the purposes referred to in paragraphs (1)(a) and (b) shall contain the holder's name and the following information in respect of each flight:
(a) the date of the flight;
(b) the type of aircraft and its registration mark;
(c) the flight crew position in which the holder acted;
(d) the flight conditions with respect to day, night, VFR and IFR;
(e) in the case of a flight in a aeroplane or helicopter, the place of departure and the place of arrival;
(f) in the case of a flight in an aeroplane, all of the intermediate take-offs and landings;
(g) the flight time;
(h) in the case of a flight in a glider, the method of launch used for the flight; and
(i) in the case of a flight in a balloon, the method of inflation used for the flight.
(3) No person shall make an entry in a personal log unless the person
(a) is the holder of the log; or
(b) has been authorized to make the entry by the holder of the log.
qqq
Last edited by A.W. on Mon Aug 09, 2004 10:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
My Bud the Cat
I see that description struck a chord with you A.W. 
I don't sponge off the taxpayer like you do - I have a great job in the private sector with a really first class company. I have a great life and can honestly say that I have more fun than any 10 people I know.
"No regrets."
Can you say the same?
I don't sponge off the taxpayer like you do - I have a great job in the private sector with a really first class company. I have a great life and can honestly say that I have more fun than any 10 people I know.
"No regrets."
Can you say the same?
