Low level flying

[Treetops]

I spent my first 2000 or so hours low level on pipeline patrols and wildlife surveys(hence my handle). We generally did the pipeline patrols around 300ft. But there were times when we had to go lower to get a look at something or the survey required it. Anyone considering flying below 500 better know exactly where they are and all the obstacles around you are. I had all the hills, towers and houses memorized on my routes and I still got suprised and almost hit a tower that was a new construction. I had done that route every 2 weeks for a year at that point. Still the most scared I have ever been in a plane. I guess my point is not matter how safe you are you can get caught. There is a lot more going on when you are close to the ground whether you are in a 172 or a CF-18. Fly safe!

[Wilbur]

You can never be sure an area is free of obstacles - the best you know for sure is that you didn't see any obstacles last time you were there. And that only relates to man made obstacles. As mentioned, other aircraft can be an issue, but also, nobody has mentioned birds.

When comptemplating doing something for "the thrill," I've learned to ask myself one simple question first. "If something goes wrong or I wind up getting a call from a TC inspector following-up a complaint, how will I be able to justify what I was doing?" For example, if I'm flying at 50' down a river valley and hit a bird, how will I justify what I was doing there? There may be times when it can be justified, but most often there won't.

Interesting stat I heard once, but don't remember the source. 80% of pilots think they have better than average skills. I'm pretty sure I can guess where the "thrill rider" group would be found in that 80%.

[Hedley]

nobody has mentioned birds

They're more of a problem in the spring and fall
in my experience. A low pass will often flush
them out.

I didn't know this thread was supposed to be a
do-it-yourself course on low-flying

[small penguin]

How will you justify to TC? Well, here's how I would do it

A) I wasnt in populated areas, therefore the 1000agl does not apply
B) I remained 500 away from signs of population (a house, a car, John Doe taking a piss, a boat, a camp site)
C) I believe that at all times I kept my aircraft in a state in which I could complete a forced landing which, given the terrain, I believe I would not have had much of a different outcome at a higher altitude.* (see below)

Now my question is... Why do I need to justify to ANYONE flying at 50 feet? I have no legal obligation to give any kind of reason (as far as I know) for flying legally at 50 feet. Whether I hit a bird or not. If TC wants to be an anal whore... so can I

As for item C), when I do my low level flying, its generally in the middle of nowhere where the terrain is covered in tall forests, and bodies of water. If I have an engine failure 100 feet above a lake, I believe I have as much a chance of dying as I would an engine failure at 2000 feet above the same terrain. Though at 2000 feet I do have time to attempt restart, broadcast a MAYDAY, secure the engine, and then decide if I want to ditch in water or take a change in treetops. Im told... anyways, that my type of aircraft survives water pretty well ... in that it stays afloat if the ditching is done properly. Even if it didnt, I'd rather ditch in water than crash in trees. Though, of course, I've experience with neither.

Now my question is... How does TC become aware of a bird strike? As a GA, am I obligated to inform TC if I have a bird strike? I kinda get the feeling I do as it would classify itself as an aviation occurrence, and at best, I'd have no damage, at worst, I'd total the plane.

*shrugs*

And yes, I fly for the thrill. I dont know too many people who have a hobby and dont do it for the thrill. But I dont consider my skills any better or worst than the pilot next to me at the club.

[MrWings]

I don't think the Darwin Awards will need any justification when they include your story either.

[Liquid Charlie]

I can't understand the mystery and the shaking of heads for people who seem to want to fly low -- It's human nature to thrill seek -- jumping out of a airplane -- climbing mount everest -- doing all sorts of dumb ass stuff -- look at the money made from the "Jackass" movies -- there will always be somebody out there who will push the envelope -- there are a lot more stupid things that are more dangerous going on -- to me low flying is a non issue -- now with the introduction of GPS there are more guys flying bullsh1t IFR in their beavers and such -- that to me is far more scary than .. running along a water route.

[snoopy]

Hey LC,
You might want to try the re-size (for web) feature on your photo site...
You've taken the forum into a new dimension....

[Liquid Charlie]

haha -- ya -- it was just the link -- but it works on the 24" monitor -- -- how's that ?? --

[LH]

For all those here who have a desire to be another "Joe Dynamic, Hero of the Bush" type pilot. allow me to give you some small pieces of advise before you venture forward anymore.

First determine the following before you commence your next low level flight:

1) Where are all the towers of any type located and how high are they and their wires?

2) How many of those same towers are high enough to require red beacons and how many of those same towers have those beacons even operating at present?

3) How many other low level a/c, like R/W, may be operating in the same area at very low altitudes or are landing and taking-off from various sites within your flight path that Mot or few other people even know anything about?

3) How many Hydro transmission lines are located in your flight path and how high are those towers and how low do their static lines sag?

4) How many of those same Hydro towers cross over various rivers that may be within your flight path?

5) How many of those same Hydro towers that cross over rivers have their static lines strung BENEATH the transmission lines and not ONTOP of the transmission lines as is mostly normal?

6) How many rivers have Water Survey of Canada cables running across them that are marked om aviation maps and how many exist that ARE NOT marked or indicated on any aviation map of any type, aanywhere.

7) ALL a/c are made by sub-contractors who have won the tenders to supply those parts to build your a/c because they submitted the lowest bids. Remember that the next time you are cruising along at 250'-300' in your wonderful flying machine because they make a/c every day on assembly lines, but all your parts are presently on "Back-Order".

This all comes from somebody who has been adeqiuately paid on many occasions over the last 45 years to take all manner of a/c to very low levels and in some cases 300' was TOO high. If you think that that was fun to do so many, many times then you are in serious need of a lobotomy. Lastly, always remember it's a lot easier to turn altitude into airspeed than it is to turn speed into altitude once all you can hear is that eerie silence from your engine(s). If you still wish to continue low level flying then I suggest that you find out what a 'McPherson Seat Belt' is and where to buy one.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Now my question is... How does TC become aware of a bird strike?

A better question would be how will my family and friends feel at my funeral caused by the bird strike that came through the windshield and killed me?

I can attest to the force of a bird strike on a windshild having hit a duck at low level that shattered a WW2 windshield that was designed to resist high impacts ( Two layers of glass with a flexible material sandwiched between the two layers.

By the way when it happened I was flying a water bomber and flying within both my company operating rules and all other rules.

[RatherBeFlying]

So this guy is flying a single-engine airplane over Angola Africa after crossing the North Atlantic and he's worked out all the navigation and is getting just a little bored over the utterly trackless desert; so starts using the sparse and rather low acacia trees as pylons -- when a giraffe sticks its head up

He survives the crash, but spends considerably more time than he liked in the middle of the desert with next to no water

As recounted by Ann Welch in her book: Accidents Happen

[Wilbur]

You missed the point SP. My comment about justifying your low flying is less an issue of regulatory legality and more one of how you want to be regarded by others. Do you want to be viewed as an idiot? Because when you have your accident, that is exactly what the majority of other people in aviation will think about you when the best justification for low flying you can provide is "I wanted a thrill.". From the legal perspective, acts of gross stupidity are more likely to be an issue in a lawsuit when people affected want to be compensated.

The absense of a law prohibitting you from doing something doesn't mean doing it's a smart or reasonable thing to do.

[small penguin]

I realize if I ask this question half the answers are going to be "because its a job" or "because I have to" etc etc. But why do you fly? Why are you a pilot? Its not because of the money, you folks get paid shit to drive a bus. Sure it might be the sex though. Or maybe its because you enjoy flying? Because flying is a thrill? Or... a rush?

Why do I fly? Because I enjoy flying, its a thrill, its a rush, its excitement. Heck if flying was none of those then I'd just be wasting time, money, and life into flying.

Remember Im a GA. If I was driving a bus or doing any bush activity I certainly would have a different ... mentality? But.. thats why I dont do those kinds of flying.

If I could drive, I'd be the type in the small car rather than the family van.

*shrugs*

I think maybe some have forgotten theres a difference between being stupid... and taking a calculated risk (if even that).

[buster79]

If I could drive, I'd be the type in the small car rather than the family

when will you be turning 16?

[small penguin]

Several years ago..

The city bus works just fine and is much cheaper

I had the choice between getting a car, or a plane. Im sure you can figure which option I went for.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Why do I fly? Because I enjoy flying, its a thrill, its a rush, its excitement. Heck if flying was none of those then I'd just be wasting time, money, and life into flying.

The more I read your thoughts the more I pray to Allah that you are not in the airspace I might be flying in.

[ettw]

Was riding along with a new Navajo Captain one time showing him the lay of the land. We had skimmed across the Hudson Straight from Iqaluit to N Quebec looking for seals and whatnot.

Anyways, I had just finished telling him the great thing about flying north of 60 was that the highest man made obstacle he would ever encounter was the NDB towers in the communities. Well dontchajustknow, the words are out of my mouth as we're coming out of a narrow bay and onto the flats heading for Donaldson and ZZZIIIINNNNGGGGG......past the wing tip goes a tower....in the middle of F***ing nowhere. We missed it by maybe 100 feet laterally and were about 10 feet below its top (and it wasnt a tall tower). When we got to Donaldson I asked Robert upstairs what the hell a tower was doing in the middle of nowhere! "Oh" he said, "that used to be our repeater antenna back in the days when we loaded the boats down in the inlet rather than where we do now". FUC*K!!!!

So there you have it, even in places where you wouldn't ever expect to see ANY obstructions, they're there....just keep looking for them, from a safe altitude.

Cheers,

ETTW

[Hedley]

Again: low flying, without recon, is an elaborate
form of delayed suicide.

Even 1000 ft AGL isn't enough sometimes. I
am familiar with many towers, all over North
America, that are easily 1500 AGL! If you
can't top them (because of wx or airspace)
give them a WIDE berth because of the invisible
guy wires. Most towers are NOT free-standing
like the phallus in Toronto.

Free advice: When flying past a tower, imagine
if it fell in any direction, creating a hemisphere
with the radius of the height of the tower.

Do not fly in that hemisphere, because you may
hit a guy wire that is almost impossible to see.

[buster79]

there are towers in the middle of nowhere all over nw ontario for the bell radio systems for the reserves. keep that in mind "little peguin" when you are planning your trip around the world!

[Buzz Lightyear]

Here is another story for you

About a year ago I was instructing in flat land Manitoba and decided to let a student go for his first solo cross-country. I had checked his nav log and briefed him on the flight. It was just the perfect day for a first nav.

About 3 hours later I was sitting in a C152 with a student, engine running and ready to go for another instruction flight when I saw him arriving with the C172. I gave him the thumbs up but didn't get an answer back...I thought "oh well, we'll talk about the flight when I come back in 1 hour".

When I landed an hour later the dispatch told me that the boss wanted to see me in his office.

"M., have you seen the C172?"
"Uuuh, nope, why?"
"You'd better have a look in the hangar"

My student was nowhere to be seen, he jumped in his car right after shutting down the engine and left home without a word. Oh, he didn't hide for long and was told to come back to the school promptly. He actually came back with a letter explaining what had happened (reading it I thought it had been written by an 8 yr old):

He was on his last leg of the flight, back to Steinbach and everything was going great when he saw eagles. He was a big fan of eagles (not the band ) and decided to follow them. He then saw deers and thought it would be cool to have a closer look...he descended, descended until he was near tree tops, maybe even lower. Suddenly he saw a telephone line right in front of him and had the reflex to dive below it. Unfortunately for him he pulled up too early or wasn't low enough (as if!) and caught the wire with the vertical stab...the incident could have gone unoticed if it wasn't for that "tiny" mistake. The result can be seen in the pics below.

After talking to him we weren't even sure if he realized he had just danced a valse with Death. Oh he was sorry for sure and a lil shaken up but not that conscious of his actions...he didn't even have his PPL for @#% sake!

I can tell you that I was a little freaked out myself...I can't even imagine what I would have done if I had lost that student.

The beacon was gone but the wire broke before doing real damage to the rudder

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj31 ... 2619-1.jpg

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj31 ... 2621-1.jpg