Piaggio incident report is out

This forum has been developed to discuss aviation related topics.

Moderators: ahramin, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog

Post Reply
pelmet
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4302
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:48 pm

Piaggio incident report is out

Post by pelmet » Sat May 03, 2008 10:20 am

---------- ADS -----------
  

Four1oh
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2448
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 9:24 pm

Re: Piaggio incident report is out

Post by Four1oh » Sat May 03, 2008 6:56 pm

the I-didn't-know explanation. So for something as important as landing technique, either they were poorly trained to operate the aircraft, or were making excuses. I'd say that's a pretty major piece of information to know.
---------- ADS -----------
  
Drinking outside the box.

User avatar
DragEraser
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 131
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 8:21 am
Location: CYYC
Contact:

Re: Piaggio incident report is out

Post by DragEraser » Sun May 04, 2008 4:24 am

I myself have over 1300 hours command in the P180 and was trained by the same piaggio aero TEST pilots. That was the procedure. Engage steering on the roll-out below 60kts. When does the landing phase end and the taxi phase begin? Four1oh? :prayer:
---------- ADS -----------
  

airway
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 168
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 10:17 am

Re: Piaggio incident report is out

Post by airway » Sun May 04, 2008 8:02 am

DragEraser wrote:I myself have over 1300 hours command in the P180 and was trained by the same piaggio aero TEST pilots. That was the procedure. Engage steering on the roll-out below 60kts. When does the landing phase end and the taxi phase begin? Four1oh? :prayer:
I would agree that there is no hard number for maximum taxi speed, but I would also bet that 99% of pilots would say for them, it's below 30 kts.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Turkey
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 127
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 9:07 am

Re: Piaggio incident report is out

Post by Turkey » Sun May 04, 2008 8:37 am

Ya. I haven't done a lot of taxiing at 60 knots myself. Someone might want to rething their logic there. I can understand the want to follow the test pilot's techniques, but maybe don't do so in contradiction of the AFM. I can't see too many insurance companies backing someone on that one...
---------- ADS -----------
  
The inability to follow does not necessarily a great leader make.

Four1oh
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2448
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 9:24 pm

Re: Piaggio incident report is out

Post by Four1oh » Sun May 04, 2008 9:06 am

DragEraser wrote:I myself have over 1300 hours command in the P180 and was trained by the same piaggio aero TEST pilots. That was the procedure. Engage steering on the roll-out below 60kts. When does the landing phase end and the taxi phase begin? Four1oh? :prayer:

quote from the report:"The Pilot's Operating Handbook (POH) states that "Steering engagement during landing is prohibited.""

so, you tell me Mr. Piaggio expert? :prayer:

As for what's a taxi speed, high speed exits are designed to be taken at 40 kts. I guarantee you that's no taxi speed for the majority of us. On the Boeing we're instructed not to touch the tiller above 20 kts taxi speed. Above that we're on the rudder pedals to steer. Hope that helps, and hope you got'er caged now, bud.
---------- ADS -----------
  
Drinking outside the box.

Four1oh
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2448
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 9:24 pm

Re: Piaggio incident report is out

Post by Four1oh » Sun May 04, 2008 9:07 am

Turkey wrote:Ya. I haven't done a lot of taxiing at 60 knots myself. Someone might want to rething their logic there. I can understand the want to follow the test pilot's techniques, but maybe don't do so in contradiction of the AFM. I can't see too many insurance companies backing someone on that one...
I don't think I even step-taxied a float plane at those speeds...
---------- ADS -----------
  
Drinking outside the box.

ch135146
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 358
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2005 7:23 pm

Re: Piaggio incident report is out

Post by ch135146 » Sun May 04, 2008 5:32 pm

FWIW, to me, you don't use nws on roll-out if the flight controls are doing the job. Generally speaking, of course...
---------- ADS -----------
  

pelmet
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4302
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:48 pm

Re: Piaggio incident report is out

Post by pelmet » Sun May 04, 2008 7:21 pm

[quote]As for what's a taxi speed, high speed exits are designed to be taken at 40 kts.[/quote]


Designed for60 knots I would say.
---------- ADS -----------
  

AuxBatOn
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3080
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:13 pm
Location: North America, sometimes

Re: Piaggio incident report is out

Post by AuxBatOn » Sun May 04, 2008 8:31 pm

pelmet wrote:
As for what's a taxi speed, high speed exits are designed to be taken at 40 kts.



Designed for60 knots I would say.
Do you need NWS to taxi off????
---------- ADS -----------
  
Going for the deck at corner

Four1oh
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2448
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 9:24 pm

Re: Piaggio incident report is out

Post by Four1oh » Sun May 04, 2008 10:01 pm

AuxBatOn wrote:
pelmet wrote:
As for what's a taxi speed, high speed exits are designed to be taken at 40 kts.



Designed for60 knots I would say.
Do you need NWS to taxi off????
not on a boeing. Like I said, no need for the tiller above 20 kts unless you're making a high angle turn, and then above 20kts is too fast. as for 40 kts vs 60 kts on a high speed, you may be right, pelmet, but that's faster than I'd like to take them at. i'll look it up.
---------- ADS -----------
  
Drinking outside the box.

Four1oh
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2448
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 9:24 pm

Re: Piaggio incident report is out

Post by Four1oh » Sun May 04, 2008 10:10 pm

FWIW this is what I found:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/RegSe ... sary/h.htm

high speed exit

Other expression for: high speed taxiway

high speed taxiway

A long-radius taxiway designed and provided with lighting or marking to define the path of aircraft, travelling at high speed (up to 60 kt), from the runway centre to a point on the centre of a taxiway. The high speed taxiway is designed to expedite aircraft turning off the runway after landing, thus reducing runway occupancy time.

* also called: high speed exit, high speed turnoff, long radius exit, rapid exit taxiway and turnoff taxiway

Fr: voie de sortie rapide


note that it says "up to 60 kts".
---------- ADS -----------
  
Drinking outside the box.

airway
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 168
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 10:17 am

Re: Piaggio incident report is out

Post by airway » Sun May 04, 2008 11:46 pm

Do you need nose wheel steering to turn off on a high speed exit in a P180?
---------- ADS -----------
  

WS739
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 191
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:59 pm

Re: Piaggio incident report is out

Post by WS739 » Mon May 05, 2008 1:45 pm

No there are two modes on the piaggio. Taxi and Takeoff.............Taxi mode just increases the sensitivity.
---------- ADS -----------
  

AuxBatOn
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3080
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:13 pm
Location: North America, sometimes

Re: Piaggio incident report is out

Post by AuxBatOn » Mon May 05, 2008 6:08 pm

WS739 wrote:No there are two modes on the piaggio. Taxi and Takeoff.............Taxi mode just increases the sensitivity.
What about differential braking?
---------- ADS -----------
  
Going for the deck at corner

Cold_Lake_Hvy
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:13 am

Re: Piaggio incident report is out

Post by Cold_Lake_Hvy » Mon May 05, 2008 6:16 pm

Four1oh wrote: not on a boeing. Like I said, no need for the tiller above 20 kts unless you're making a high angle turn, and then above 20kts is too fast. as for 40 kts vs 60 kts on a high speed, you may be right, pelmet, but that's faster than I'd like to take them at. i'll look it up.

MOMO!!! is that you? are you just playing with these kids?

I thought we settled this issue back on alpha in Kai Tak? Or was it Incheon?
---------- ADS -----------
  

Four1oh
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2448
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 9:24 pm

Re: Piaggio incident report is out

Post by Four1oh » Mon May 05, 2008 6:26 pm

Cold_Lake_Hvy wrote:
Four1oh wrote: not on a boeing. Like I said, no need for the tiller above 20 kts unless you're making a high angle turn, and then above 20kts is too fast. as for 40 kts vs 60 kts on a high speed, you may be right, pelmet, but that's faster than I'd like to take them at. i'll look it up.

MOMO!!! is that you? are you just playing with these kids?

I thought we settled this issue back on alpha in Kai Tak? Or was it Incheon?
Hey bud, nope, never been to Kai Tak, but I wish I had, looked like an interesting spot.
---------- ADS -----------
  
Drinking outside the box.

Post Reply

Return to “General Comments”