Captain: " Sorry I am not qualified to land this airplane"

[Rockie]

The Captain would be fully trained and capable of flying a CAT II, but he was obviously under the minimum hours requirement that would release him to do that. It happens everywhere. And it is a rare situation that crew scheduling can proactively schedule a pilot based on their weather minimums. In other words...nothing to see here folks, move along.

[pilotbzh]

could have made a more friendly PA..... Folks, the weather is worst than we need to compled a legal aproach and we prefer to go back to the airport at this time, appologised for the incomvenience but we can't control mother nature or the JAA....by the way bar is open....

[Ralliart]

Recently I started on a new type in the US under Part 135. I was considered a "high minimums" captain for the first 100 hrs. Basically, I required an extra 1/2 sm and 100 ft for approaches (which also limited my departure criteria).

So while my co-workers were blasting off each morning with 1/2 sm vis, I had to wait for it to improve to 1 sm. On the other side, while they were shooting approaches down to the 200-1/2 minimums, I couldn't try without 300-1. The Fedex station managers at my destination didn't quite understand this scenario when every single aircraft got in on a consistent basis, while I didn't even attempt it (ie: high minimums restricted). I'm sure they just considered me incompetant without knowing the regulations behind it all.

So not really a big deal, it happens everywhere.

As far as not sending someone to a destination when there may be poor weather, since schedules are put out weeks in advance, it's extremely difficult to coordinate and most of the time it's not possible to make a switch at the last minute due to aircraft and crew commitments.

In my case, 100 hrs takes forever when you only fly less than 1.5 hrs per day!

[CAL]

here is a thought....try the approach to at least what you are qualified to do...i.e. 200 DH then go around and call it a day...but to not at least try?...wtf?

[Rockie]

Most airlines are very specific about what a crew can and cannot do. "Give it a whirl" is something you do in the boonies with a Navajo, not a major airline. Plus now in Canada at least, if the weather is below approach ban limits you cannot proceed beyond the FAF.

[CAL]

dont fly in the boonies...or at least dont think JFK, IAD, ORD qualify...dont fly a ho...anymore that is....but if the company has been willing to send him off to a place where the weather is mins....It would seem that they are almost assuming you are going to try and get it in...I would...its an ils for christ sake....try it...no joy go home..an extra 500 pounds in that machine(guess)..rockie I think there is much more to this story than we know....

[Rockie]

No there isn't CAL. It is common for airlines to have a limit on people new to a machine that prohibits low visibility approaches until they reach 100 hours on type. There are also state regulations that prohibit it as well. Nothing new or unusual about it.

Scheduling around something like weather vs. a temporary crew restriction is very difficult to do. They probably launched the guy off hoping the weather would be CAT I, but turns out it wasn't. It happens.

[TFE731]

Good for him! Must have taken large ones to announce that to the passengers.

Nope, not large ones. I'd call it sheer, and utter stupidity.

[romeo2die4]

The captain did the right thing saved everybody... he was new to the q-400 an that was his limit this are the kind of pilots who live long and are incidents or accident free... imagine if had done the approach and crashed the investigators would have said he was not qualified and he should have gone back.. as pilot this decision you would never regret.

[TFE731]

Just for the record, I am not commenting on his decision to abide by the regulations, of course he shouldn't have attempted to land without his ClassII cert.

I am referring to the PA. What an embarrassment resulting from a mindless choice to tell the general public "I am not qualified to land the plane." I'm sure to John Smith in the back, that sounds like "I am not qualified to land the plane!"

geez

[mattedfred]

you do realize your basing your comments on the recollection of a passenger and not an actual transcript of the actual PA?

[TFE731]

you do realize your basing your comments on the recollection of a passenger and not an actual transcript of the actual PA?

Do you really think the actual PA at this point matters? The actual PA, whatever was said, is what spurred this whole media frenzy, so again I reiterate, whatever he/she said, was a poor choice.

When was the last time you saw a pilot mocked in the media because an aircraft couldn't land somewhere due to bad weather?

[Widow]

Would pax on the aircraft not have been aware that other aircraft were landing in the fog? If so, and he'd said he couldn't land due to weather, rather than due to his certification, would the pax not have become suspicious?

And isn't Paris kind of known for being foggy?

[TFE731]

Would pax on the aircraft not have been aware that other aircraft were landing in the fog? If so, and he'd said he couldn't land due to weather, rather than due to his certification, would the pax not have become suspicious?

First of all, they would not be aware of anything else going on. How could they, they are in an airplane. Secondly if the basic human has an understanding of weather, then i'm sure it would not be hard to comprehend that weather changes, and sometimes changes rapidly, in other words, 10 minutes ago the field was in a temporary clear patch while now a shallow drifting fog layer has covered it again, on and on the cycle goes.

Do we attempt the approach? Do we go in a holding pattern and hope for a temporary clearing again? How long should we hold for? Do we have enough fuel to hold? How about our alternate airport? Is the weather there still acceptable? Do we need a new alternate airport now? Are we going to have enough fuel left to go to our alternate if we can't land here?

I'm just trying to offer a sense of the endless variables involved in the front end's decision making process. Keep in mind while you're making all those decisions, you are still flying an airplane, and you are still consuming fuel. Time becomes more and more critical, decisions have to be made quicker, and consequences of those decisions have to all be factored in.

[Meatservo]

I was in a 737 a couple of years ago heading from Calgary to Hamilton, where the plane conducted a missed approach and ended up landing in Toronto instead. Everyone had to wait on the plane while buses came to pick us up and take us to Hamilton. I don't remember the exact words the crew used on the P.A., but we were made aware that the crew had some restriction with respect to landing minima and were compelled by this restriction to do the missed approach at a higher altitude than a more experienced crew would have. I can't remember if any of the other passengers were annoyed about this but I don't recall any grumbling other than the irritation of having to sit on the plane while it was parked on the apron at the FBO until buses came. I think it was wise of the crew to let us know the reason for the missed approach, because sooner or later the passengers would have become aware that planes from different companies were using the Hamilton airport, and would wonder why we didn't. Better to blame it on "the rules" than to allow laypeople to speculate and invent their own explanations. When you get there normally, credit for the successful approach is given to "the computers"; but when you miss, then you are considered a "chicken", and all the cattle start to imagine they were in some kind of mortal peril that was preventing the plane from landing.
On the other hand, if the words used by the Dash 8 pilot are being reported accurately, he sounds like a silly man. He could have been a little more diplomatic. I agree that some boob saying he is not qualified to land the plane would sound alarming, not only that but it makes the pilot sound like he is frightened too. Still, could be that some hysterical passenger after the fact mis-reported the actual words used on the P.A.