Captain: " Sorry I am not qualified to land this airplane"

[Rubberbiscuit]

Comforting to hear from the flightdeck eh?

Pilot ‘not qualified’ to land plane in foggy weather

Dec 17 2008 by James McCarthy, Western Mail

A PILOT was yesterday forced to return to Cardiff while en route to Paris because he was not qualified to land in foggy weather.

Flybe flight BE1431 was supposed to leave Wales at 8.45am but took off almost three hours late because of conditions at Cardiff International Airport.

But as the plane approached Charles De Gaulle Airport the captain announced over the tannoy he was not allowed to land.

As a result, one passenger, Cassandra Grant, missed a job interview.

The 29-year-old, who works in sales, was going for a role as a national account manager with Kapa, which makes own brand products for Asda.

She said: “Twenty minutes outside Paris the captain said: ‘Unfortunately I’m not qualified to land the plane in Paris. They are asking for a level two qualification and I only have a level five. We’ll have to fly back’.

“We flew back and he said: ‘We’re getting another crew to fly back that are qualified to land’.”

While other passengers went back to France she did not because she had missed her interview.

The situation left Ms Grant, who lives in Bristol, more than £260 out of pocket. As well as paying £220 for the ticket, she said she paid £14 to park at the airport and £5.30 for the Severn Bridge.

She also paid £25 for someone to look after her horses.

She was offered a replacement ticket which only cost £118 and said Cardiff Airport refused to refund her parking fees because the problems were weather- related.

She added: “The whole thing beggars belief. If I had not been on the plane I would not have believed it.

“He [the captain] apologised for the inconvenience but said it was down to his qualification status.

“I tried to book a flight for the next morning but could not. I could have gone from Exeter but it defeats the whole object when the office you’re visiting is closed.

“There were lots of parents going to EuroDisney, lots of people with very young children. I don’t think anyone could believe that he was not qualified to land the plane.”

Ms Grant has had to rearrange her interview for January 5.

Weather experts Meteogroup said yesterday the weather was foggy at Charles de Gaulle and that visibility was 700 metres.

Last night a Flybe spokeswoman said: “The Flybe pilot who flew BE1431 from Cardiff International Airport to Paris Charles de Gaulle is an experienced aviator with more than 30 years’ commercial aviation experience flying a number of different passenger aircraft types.

“He has relatively recently transferred his ‘type-rating’ from a Bombardier Q300 to a Bombardier Q400 and has not yet completed the requisite low-visibility training to complete a landing in conditions such as the dense fog experienced in Paris Charles de Gaulle this morning.

“The captain therefore quite correctly turned the aircraft around and returned to Cardiff; a decision which the company stands by 100%.

“Aviation is the most highly regulated form of public transport in the United Kingdom.

“As a result, technical situations like these arise where a pilot with 30 years’ experience correctly abides by regulatory rules. At no point was passenger safety compromised.”

A spokesman for Cardiff Airport confirmed the flight had turned around. Charles de Gaulle airport could not be reached for comment.

[Doc]

Good for him! Must have taken large ones to announce that to the passengers. Better return than be in over his head. In the UK, they would fire his ass. He did right.

[Flybaby]

I don't know the system over there, but this seems to be a fuckup on the side of the airline. Shouldn't the airline train all of their pilots to the maximum level required?

[Widow]

How extraordinary ... and kudos to the pilot.

But why would the company have dispatched a pilot who was underqualified when it would seem reasonable to have predicted (in my underqualified opinion) the possibility of poor conditions at the destination?

[Liquid Charlie]

Give me a break -- media bullshit -- that's common in Europe or anyplace else that has cat 11 and cat 111 runways - now why he would announce he isn't qualified but simply that the wx was below approach limits is a mystery but maybe he was trying to make a point -- if it was Ryan I could understand completely --

[E-Flyer]

“He has relatively recently transferred his ‘type-rating’ from a Bombardier Q300 to a Bombardier Q400 and has not yet completed the requisite low-visibility training to complete a landing in conditions such as the dense fog experienced in Paris Charles de Gaulle this morning."

I am sorry, but I simply have to add; why the hell would scheduling put him on a flight to an airport where the chance of fog was issued?

Either put fully qualified pilot's on the line, or schedule them accordingly; if there's a chance of fog, don't send them there. I know it sounds ridiculous but hey, they chose to fly him before he was qualified to command the airplane to it's fullest measures.

Good decision by the pilot - looks like there still are some dash 8 pilot's who know how to make decisions 'tisk tisk.' lol

While I'm at it, since we're discussing how much she paid for her horse, why don't we discuss how much she had to pay to get that lyposuction done so she could impress the folks at the interview

Oh I love it when passengers complain and some how always blame the pilot.

[North Shore]

I wonder if there are some internal company politics at work here that we are not privy to?

[Bede]

That stuff happends. I flew with a guy who just did his recurrent but the HGS was U/S on the sim so he wasn't Cat II or III qualified. We had to set Cat I DH while everyone else was setting Cat II DH.

[E-Flyer]

But you'd think that it would be the F/O who would have such a restriction when on the line. Why would the PIC have that restriction; that's plain stupid. He wasn't qualified to land.

[727driver]

Merely speculation but maybe he tried to tell dispatch prior to departure his qualifications wouldn't allow him to land based on the forecast and they told him to go and try anyway. Sounds like internal politics at play and he was trying to make point of embarrasing the company let alone scare the passengers. Good on the Captain for not pushing limits passed his level of training however a different choice of words may have been more appropriate to explain the situation.

[E-Flyer]

Merely speculation but maybe he tried to tell dispatch prior to departure his qualifications wouldn't allow him to land based on the forecast and they told him to go and try anyway. Sounds like internal politics at play and he was trying to make point of embarrasing the company let alone scare the passengers. Good on the Captain for not pushing limits passed his level of training however a different choice of words may have been more appropriate to explain the situation.

If that's what happened... they took a very big chance of just wasting air time, fuel, passengers patience. Especially during these economic times in europe.

[yycflyguy]

Same thing happens at big red. New Captains must have 300 hours (might be 200) command on type before doing any approach below Cat 1. New Captains are also junior and those junior Captains get to see lots of YYT and YHZ were weather is frequently below Cat 1. Scheduling tries to avoid this scenario but at the end of the month when everyone else is flown out...

[xsbank]

Hey, J.C., I read this site for completely off the topic drivel! Maybe we need a special 'repository' for that stuff?

[JZA]

Right Decision by the pilot-in-command to turn around, ....but possibly a poor decision to structure the passenger PA the way he did in terms of customer relations/comfort.

"Ladies & Gentleman the weather at our destination is below our landing minimums, etc." .....there is no need to tell the passengers that you are "not qualified".

[square]

What a non-story, who cares? It's international news now when someone makes a poor choice of words? Maybe English wasn't his first language.

[Rubberbiscuit]

What a non-story, who cares? It's international news now when someone makes a poor choice of words? Maybe English wasn't his first language.

It was not my intent to make fun of the captains choice of words even if that is how it came across. I was chuckling at the fact that the pax misunderstood what the captain said. Most passengers does not know the intricate details of currency rules and thus miss interpreted his reason for retuning.

[pika]

“He has relatively recently transferred his ‘type-rating’ from a Bombardier Q300 to a Bombardier Q400 and has not yet completed the requisite low-visibility training to complete a landing in conditions such as the dense fog experienced in Paris Charles de Gaulle this morning.

Generally 300 PIC on class and 100 PIC on type before Cat II/III is allowed. Only issue is that the PA was too honest.

[Liquid Charlie]

Reading the replies to this thread and seeing how much it is misunderstood here within an aviation oriented group - how could a passenger and the media have any understanding at all --

You can't schedule crews around wx and yes there are all sorts of reasons for a crew member to be flying the line and not be cat 11 or cat 111 qualified.(F/O had only 200 hrs TT Who knows maybe the airplane was carrying an MEL item and the PA was misunderstood -- some many variables and it all boils down to news fodder

[square]

It was not my intent to make fun of the captains choice of words even if that is how it came across.

Ah but it wasn't my intent to criticize your intent either sir, I was addressing my scorn to the many, many pages of articles the news wires have posted on the subject.

[Siddley Hawker]

Tannoy??? Weird p/a systems on the 400 in Yerp.