CMA pans Air Canada, WestJet policy on obese, disabled flyer

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GilletteNorth
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CMA pans Air Canada, WestJet policy on obese, disabled flyer

Post by GilletteNorth »

http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2009/0 ... ngers.html
CMA pans Air Canada, WestJet policy on obese, disabled flyers
Last Updated: Friday, January 9, 2009 | 5:19 PM ET The Canadian Press
The Canadian Medical Association said Friday it's "disappointed" that Canada's two major airlines have instituted a policy requiring doctors to provide a note to obese and disabled people in order for them to receive special privileges on planes.

The issue of whether an overweight airline passenger can fit comfortably in a single seat is not a medical question, said the organization representing doctors across the country.

The association's president, Dr. Robert Ouellet, said WestJet Airlines and Air Canada did not consult the CMA before instituting the policy.

The airlines announced their new policy Jan. 8 after the Canadian Transportation Agency ordered them to make extra seating freely available to disabled and obese travellers who require it.

In a news release Friday, the CMA said the policy shows "a disregard for the use of scarce medical resources."

Many physicians are already inundated with third-party forms, Ouellet said.

"In as much as the CMA supports the rights of these travellers, we feel that airlines should not try and pass the buck to physicians over what is essentially a business matter," he said.

Airlines reacted to Supreme Court ruling
The Supreme Court of Canada upheld the CTA order in November, and airlines had until Jan. 10 to comply by introducing a "one passenger, one fare" policy.

The new policy applies to passengers who require an attendant to travel with them because of a disability, and to obese or overweight passengers who cannot fit in a single seat.

Air Canada announced this week that these passengers will require "a doctor's certificate of their disability or need for an attendant when travelling, as well as medical approval for travel."

WestJet announced a similar requirement and added: "All medical forms submitted by a guest's physician will be reviewed by WestJet's medical desk nurse. The nurse may contact the guest's physician for more information prior to making a final decision to approve or decline a request."

The medical association said it plans to write to the airlines asking that they "immediately revisit their requirements for doctor's certificates."
Gotta love this. The Canadian government forces the airlines to subsidize air travel by using the Supreme Court to back the Canadian Transportation Agency's order making extra seating freely available to disabled and obese travellers who require it. The airlines fight back by forcing the passengers to prove they have a medical condition prior to agreeing to sell them a ticket. The CMA doesn't want to get involved although they support the rights of the obese and medically disabled passengers. Ha Ha Ha.

My government - get on the ball. If you want to make air travel a right, take responsibility for your decision and subsidize the travel. I'll bet if you do you'll want the passengers to get a doctors note too.
The overwight passengers - take responsibility for your own decision and lifestyle choices in being overweight. Pay for the upgrade to business class if you need the extra room and spare the rest of us.
CMA - if you want to claim obesity is a disease you better show me the research cause I think that`s clap. It`s a personal choice. Tell the patients to get off their duff and exercise if they come to you for a doctors note.
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Re: CMA pans Air Canada, WestJet policy on obese, disabled flyer

Post by Nark »

According to this chart I'm overweight and pretty close to being obese.
I don't know to many overweight people that can keep up with me, but that's beside the point.

This means that I should get two seats on my next AC flight thanks to the CTA. Gee, thanks Canada.
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Re: CMA pans Air Canada, WestJet policy on obese, disabled flyer

Post by Troubleshot »

Yes but you'll need a doctors note don't forget.
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Re: CMA pans Air Canada, WestJet policy on obese, disabled flyer

Post by Sulako »

I agree with a doctor's note, if only to prevent abuse of the system. Say one day I don't want to have anyone sitting next to me when I fly commercial - could I just tell the gate agent that I and bloated from the whiskey and wings the night before and find the seats too small and thus need two?
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Re: CMA pans Air Canada, WestJet policy on obese, disabled flyer

Post by Meatservo »

[quote="GilletteNorth"]http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2009/0 ... ngers.html
In a news release Friday, the CMA said the policy shows "a disregard for the use of scarce medical resources."
[quote]

I think the CMA's attitude shows a disregard for the use of scarce aviation resources. I hate sitting next to someone on a plane. Better start stuffing my cakehole.
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Re: CMA pans Air Canada, WestJet policy on obese, disabled flyer

Post by North Shore »

Yah, Nark, you were looking pretty obese at the Beaver last year - must have been all the MREs you ate!

That chart puts me in the 18th percentile for my age - never felt so good about having all of those people ahead of me!
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Re: CMA pans Air Canada, WestJet policy on obese, disabled flyer

Post by Nark »

I played around with the numbers, and that site concluded that I'd need to loose between 25-70 lbs in order to be medically ideal for my height. Funny that the Flight Surgeons never tell me to loose weight? Perhaps they haven't seen that website...

I'm in the 77th percentile. I'd love for those 77% to workout with me for a day.



I have an MRE in the back of my car for a rainy day. Chicken Tetrazinni sound appealing to you?
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Re: CMA pans Air Canada, WestJet policy on obese, disabled flyer

Post by North Shore »

Sure, but I'd bet that most of your 'extra' weight is muscle, while most of that from the 'average' that they are taking, is fat... so no worries. Just watch it once you are the wrong side of 40 - twice as easy to put it on, and 4x as hard to lose it!

Chicken Tetrazinni sound appealing to you? - See, there's your problem - all of that fattening pasta and Italian food - if it were Chicken Teriyaki, then no problem! :lol:
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Re: CMA pans Air Canada, WestJet policy on obese, disabled flyer

Post by xsbank »

Once upon a time, we, as Canadians prided ourselves on our attitudes towards the disadvantaged. We modelled social policy such that we would structure our society to help those whose lives were lived in inferior circumstances.

What happened to you guys? You must have grown up in very smug households. Absolutely no compassion or generosity of spirit. None. Whassamatter, afraid someone will cheat the system and get something for nothing while poor you is working sooo hard?

Do you seriously think there will be any change in your attitude when these people show up with their difficult-to-obtain doctor's certificates? Do you have any concept of disabilty? "Gee, Bob's 2 legs haven't grown back since the last flight, guess we'll have to get another medical certificate."

Are you really spending time worried about this? Obviously in your narrow miserable bachelor lives you have never shared your life with someone with a disability or loved someone who has been damaged or had a family member become disabled. People with disabilities need to travel too and I see no material difference between giving free seats to infants or half price to kids. They are a huge pita to other pax on an airliner - what's the difference?

I hope you will one day find room in your life for some compassion. Even for fatties. Humans are pre-disposed to despise the obese, but that means you will just have to try harder.

Maybe instead of going to the bar this next Friday night, why not spend the money doing something selfless? What a concept.

Having said that, how the h*ll would you get a medically obese person out of a 321 exit in an emergency? Presumably its no harder than trying to get a passenger out who has suffered a back injury in the 'incident.' Some just ain't gonna make it.

I can't even contemplate how awful it would be to try and get out of a busted jet in dire circumstances even if all the passengers were fit - and I've had the training.
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Re: CMA pans Air Canada, WestJet policy on obese, disabled flyer

Post by GilletteNorth »

Travelling by air isn't a right. It's just a mode of transportation.

Before anyone says I'm commenting on fatties from a smug 'holier than thou attitude', I'm an overweight person. I am very much aware of how much space I take in the seat when I travel. I have to constantly work at keeping my elbows tucked firmly against my sides or more often have my arms folded in front of me while flying so that I don't encroach on the person next to me. It works and though I am often uncomfortable that's my decision since I allowed myself to get this way through overeating and lack of exercise. I'd have to put alot of effort into getting down to the acceptable BMI chart weight for my height and age. Personally I think that chart is out to lunch.

If you are obese, if you feel you need extra space, if you don't want to spend your time travelling by other means, then pony up some extra dough for the extra seat. Obesity is not a disadvantage like having cancer or cystic fybrosis. Let's face it, people who are fat live their life eating a little too much everyday, doing little or no exercise and eventually pack on the pounds. It's choosing not to be responsible for your health. They probably didn't say to themselves "I want to be fat". They just decided "I'll have a little extra gravy on the fries"... among other things. If you choose not to be responsible for your health, don't ask the airlines to support your choice by getting a 'free' extra seat since you can guarantee the airlines will be incrementally passing the cost of your 'free' seat on to me and everyone else who travels by air.

Disregarding the "they design the seats too small for normal people" argument, most people fit in the seats just fine. Even if the seats are slightly smaller it's understandable since airlines are trying to make some money by getting as many people onboard as they can fit in. Most people accept that and try to be civil towards their fellow passengers. Plumping down into the seat and using more than your alloted space to the inconvenience of your fellow passenger is rude and inconsiderate. And now the government is enabling obesity and rudeness by supporting the CTA ruling ordering airlines to provide free seats.

If the person has a medical condition that requires them to travel by air to enable our right to speedy medical services, by all means, give their care-giver a seat, then send the bill to the government since in Canada our health care is supposed to be universal. Oh, the trip wasn't to recieve medical treatment? Ah, it was to visit your mother? Well that's not a 'need to' trip then, it's a 'want to' trip and you can pay for your own expenses.
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Re: CMA pans Air Canada, WestJet policy on obese, disabled flyer

Post by Flybaby »

xsbank wrote:I hope you will one day find room in your life for some compassion. Even for fatties. Humans are pre-disposed to despise the obese, but that means you will just have to try harder.
What Xsbank is trying to say is that fat chicks need loving too.
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Re: CMA pans Air Canada, WestJet policy on obese, disabled flyer

Post by roger.roger »

So CMA is going to give 2 seats out to those that require it in there 1900's are they?
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Re: CMA pans Air Canada, WestJet policy on obese, disabled flyer

Post by Flybaby »

CMA =Canadian Medical Association
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Re: CMA pans Air Canada, WestJet policy on obese, disabled flyer

Post by stopsquawk »

roger.roger wrote:So CMA is going to give 2 seats out to those that require it in there 1900's are they?
I was just waiting for this one, :)

But to bring up an interesting argument, if an aircraft doesn't have 2 seats together that can accommodate these so called disabled persons, is the airline obliged to modify them to fit the obese?
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Re: CMA pans Air Canada, WestJet policy on obese, disabled flyer

Post by Four1oh »

I think it makes sense, after all aren't the airlines supposed to supply that extra seat for the morbidly obese? A seat for the people who suffer their size through no fault of their own? Like Oprah's thyroid problem? So how is an airline supposed to diagnose this 'disease'? How is an airline supposed to be able to distinguish between someone who's addicted to Mars Bars, and someone who's obese through no fault of their own? Answer: get a doc to diagnose them. Simple. Unless airlines are supposed to open medical clinics now...?
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Re: CMA pans Air Canada, WestJet policy on obese, disabled flyer

Post by Meatservo »

In addition to never exercising, I've decided never to bathe or brush my teeth. That way, if I can't score a double seat the fat way, I can probably get one because no-one will sit with me anyway.

I wouldn't be too pleased if I lost my seat on a plane because someone else needed to take up two seats.
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Re: CMA pans Air Canada, WestJet policy on obese, disabled flyer

Post by scrambled_legs »

What I want to know, is if they have to let people that literally take up 2 seats onto the plane, do they give them a bedpan or a colostomy because there is no way that they're going to squish into the shitter, no matter how bad they have to go.

What about the tall people, what about the claustrophobic people, what about the people that are too short to see the tv screen... Give me a break, deal with it or stay at home.

Personally I think the airlines should just make the armrests stationary in the lowered position. If tubby finds it more comfortable to straddle the armrest, then squish into one seat, then he meets the obese requirements and can have two seats for the price of one.
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Re: CMA pans Air Canada, WestJet policy on obese, disabled flyer

Post by North Shore »

Like Oprah's thyroid problem?
Thyroid problem? That's the excuse this time?

It's really simple mathematics: Eat x calories, burn y calories if x - y is positive, then you gain weight; if x - y is negative, then you lose it. If Oprah can't summon the self-discipline to exercise for 30 minutes a day, ride her bike to work, walk up the stairs etc..; or the self control to avoid large helpings of food, then I fail to see why any airline should be forced to subsidise her by granting a second seat..
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Re: CMA pans Air Canada, WestJet policy on obese, disabled flyer

Post by Meatservo »

Wow, Northy, you took the words right out of my mouth (get it?) What gland problem?
Where does fat come from?
Food.
How did the food get into your body?
Via your mouth.
Who put it there?
You.
Who bought you a plane ticket?
You did.
Who needs two seats?
You do.
Who pays for those seats?
You do. Silly rabbit.
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Re: CMA pans Air Canada, WestJet policy on obese, disabled flyer

Post by Lost in Saigon »

Airlines sometimes transport passengers that are confined to a stretcher. Up to nine economy seats are removed or folded flat to accomodate the stretcher.

In the past, the patient has to pay for the seats.

Does this new ruling now mean that a person with a "Disabilty" (requiring them lie flat in a stretcher) can now travel with only paying for one seat?

Where will it end?

How about a person in an Iron Lung?

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