Another NavCanada Question

[TTJJ]

Enroute fees levied by Eurocontrol are MUCH higher than those charged by NavCanada
I ran the following examples.
The first is from Paris to Nice verses Ottawa to Quebec City. This was to keep the flight within one country in europe.
The second group is a flight across various countries in Europe, from Lisbon to Berlin. This equates to about Ottawa - Saskatoon
Values are in US$ and are enroute fees only. They do not inclued airport fees.

A) PARIS - NICE
LFPG MONOT1L MONOT R161 NEV R31 MTL R161 AMFOU LFMN

------------------------OVERFLIGHT CHARGES---------------------------
USD
FIR COUNTRY EET CURR CHARGE CHARGE
---------------------------------------------------------------------
LFFF FRANCE 0036 EUR 102.24 152.36
LFMM FRANCE 0000 EUR 158.86 236.75
---------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTAL OVERFLIGHT CHARGES (USD): 389.11
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A1) OTTAWA - QUEBEC CITY
CYOW YOW J553 YMX J546 SOKYE DCT YQB CYQB

------------------------OVERFLIGHT CHARGES---------------------------

USD
FIR COUNTRY EET CURR CHARGE CHARGE
---------------------------------------------------------------------
CZUL CANADA CAD 130.27 125.55
---------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTAL OVERFLIGHT CHARGES (USD): 125.55
___________________________________________________________________________________________



B) OTTAWA-SASKATOON

CYOW YOW J500 YYB J513 YQT J500 VLR J515 YOUNG DCT DUNEM DUNEM2
CYXE

------------------------OVERFLIGHT CHARGES---------------------------

USD
FIR COUNTRY EET CURR CHARGE CHARGE
---------------------------------------------------------------------
CZUL CANADA 0008 CAD 81.54 78.59
CZYZ CANADA 0078 CAD 126.23 121.66
CZWG CANADA 0080 CAD 4.75 4.58
KZMP UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 0090 USD 0.00 0.00
CZWG CANADA 0000 CAD 192.61 185.63
---------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTAL OVERFLIGHT CHARGES (USD): 390.46
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


B1) LISBON - BERLIN
LPPT IXIDA2N IXIDA DCT RIVRO UN745 ZMR UN873 RONAX UL976 VADOM
UN858 MASEK T200 RUDAK RUDAK5V EDDT

------------------------OVERFLIGHT CHARGES---------------------------

USD
FIR COUNTRY EET CURR CHARGE CHARGE
---------------------------------------------------------------------
LPPC PORTUGAL - CONTINENTAL 0020 EUR 76.41 113.87
LECM SPAIN 0052 EUR 249.98 372.55
LFRR FRANCE 0085 EUR 192.11 286.31
LFFF FRANCE 0118 EUR 180.49 268.98
EBUR BELGIUM 0122 EUR 24.35 36.29
EDUU GERMANY 0159 EUR 204.67 305.01
EDWW GERMANY 0000 EUR 35.79 53.34
---------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTAL OVERFLIGHT CHARGES (USD): 1436.35

[mag check]

What size aircraft are those prices quoted for? Are they more for all aircraft, or just the one that you checked?

[TTJJ]

I ran it for a Falcon 2000.
I just ran the Lisbon - Berlin route again for our Falcon 7X, which is larger than a 2000. The charges are based on weight as per the link at the bottom.


LPPT IXIDA2N IXIDA DCT RIVRO UN745 ZMR UN873 RONAX UL976 VADOM
UN858 MASEK T200 RUDAK RUDAK5V EDDT

------------------------OVERFLIGHT CHARGES---------------------------

USD
FIR COUNTRY EET CURR CHARGE CHARGE
---------------------------------------------------------------------
LPPC PORTUGAL - CONTINENTAL 0020 EUR 98.41 146.66
LECM SPAIN 0052 EUR 321.96 479.82
LFRR FRANCE 0085 EUR 247.43 368.74
LFFF FRANCE 0117 EUR 232.45 346.43
EBUR BELGIUM 0121 EUR 31.37 46.74
EDUU GERMANY 0157 EUR 264.61 394.35
EDWW GERMANY 0000 EUR 45.37 67.62
---------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTAL OVERFLIGHT CHARGES (USD): 1850.36


Check out the fee schedule here. (I think)
http://www.eurocontrol.int/aircraft_ope ... _cost.html

I hope it works...
TTJJ

[the_professor]

I want the mod who edited this thread to state, right here, why they've chopped posts out.

Show me exactly why it was done.

[ottawa,kan]

Same flight in the USA, any distance....absolutely FREE.

[just curious]

I want the mod who edited this thread to state, right here, why they've chopped posts out.

I split, at the request of the original poster, the on-going duel between you and Hedley.
Originally it was located in the General thread. However, as it appeared to be an irresolvable diatribe between you and m'sieur Hedley, rather than an actual answer to the poster's question, one of my peers moved it to the miscellaneous forum.

It is located here:

viewtopic.php?f=49&t=59467

JC

[AuxBatOn]

Same flight in the USA, any distance....absolutely FREE.

Living in the USA: an economy down the drain, no middle class and no money left. I'll take Canada any day.

[the_professor]

Nav Canada's efficiency is a testament to the concept of non-government operation of an ANS.

Cheaper than Europe, and still more than 10% cheaper than the equivalent ATT charged in the Transport days, and that figure is even adjusted for inflation.

You can't beat value like that.

[the_professor]

Same flight in the USA, any distance....absolutely FREE.

Free to whom? A domestic pilot who's visiting their airspace?

You do realize the FAA is funded by the American taxpayer, right? So it's not free to them. Instead it's a charge that everyone effectively pays, regardless of whether or not they ever set foot on an airplane.

[ottawa,kan]

Sure but totally free for you Canadian visitors. You don't pay taxes here. And free enough for me, I do pay lotsa taxes and this is one benefit I get. Along with building multi million dollar bridges in Alaska that I'll never use and new wings on the Art Museum in New York that I'll never see. Now back off Professor and don't go all postal on me....this is humour, not debate. Save your big guns for Hedley.

[TTJJ]

Heaven forbid that anyone would dare to post anything factual on this site....but I'll try.

For the same Falcon 2000 as above and for about the same distance as Lisbon - Berlin and Ottawa - Saskatoon, I ran JFK to Houston Texas.

Note: Navigation Fees are estimates based on overflight charges only.
RTE
KJFK RBV DCT OTT J42 GVE DCT PSK J22 MEI DCT AEX DAS8 KIAH

------------------------OVERFLIGHT CHARGES---------------------------

USD
FIR COUNTRY EET CURR CHARGE CHARGE
---------------------------------------------------------------------
KZNY UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 0009 USD 0.00 0.00
KZDC UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 0056 USD 0.00 0.00
KZTL UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 0118 USD 0.00 0.00
KZME UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 0142 USD 0.00 0.00
KZHU UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 0000 USD 0.00 0.00
---------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTAL OVERFLIGHT CHARGES (USD): 0.00


Solely because this is supposed to be an aviation site, and that the newbees in the crowd might be interested in seeing what a navigation log looks like for a small jet, I have included one.
Note, the formatting was lost after pasting the navlog. It is not normally all scrunched together like it is here.


RECALL UWX 202001 FLT=7129 DT=19 ORG=KJFK DST=KIAH ACFT=XXXXX
--- START-OF-PLAN RC 202001 PLNR FMT ID 06
TO RECALL A GLOBAL AFIS USE U7129

FLT PLAN: 7129 KJFK/KIAH MACH:M80 A/C: XXXXX /F2TH RC 202001
ETD: 22/14.00Z
ORG KJFK DEST KIAH


DEPARTURE DATE/TIME ARRIVAL DATE/TIME - INCLUDES TAXI TIMES
22/14.00 (ZULU) 22/17.16 (ZULU)
22/10.00 (LOCAL) 22/12.16 (LOCAL)



FUEL TIME CORR TOGWT LDGWT AVG WIND DIR/WC
DEST KIAH 004944 03.06 ------ 029908 025164 296/-026
RESV 001064 00.45 ------
ALTN 000000 00.00 ------ ALTN NIL DIST 0000 W/C P000
HOLD 000000 00.00 ------
REQD 006008 03.51 ------ BOW 023900 PAYLOAD 000200
EXTRA 000000 00.00 ------
TAXI 000200
TTL AT BO 006008 04.01 ------ RTE MAN DIST 1253

KJFK RBV DCT OTT J42 GVE DCT PSK J22 MEI DCT AEX DAS8 KIAH

KJFK/0430
MAXSHR 06 / AEX

SUMMARY 03.05 FL 40 B/O 005237 PL 000200 TOW 029908 CRZ M80 RT MAN

SUMMARY 03.03 FL 38 B/O 005470 PL 000200 TOW 029908 CRZ M80 RT MAN

CLIMB: 14 MIN 0083 NM 0818 FUEL BURN
DESCENT: 22 MIN 0115 NM 0265 FUEL BURN

CHKPNT LAT LONG TEMP TROP LEG ELAP
------ -------- --------- ---- ---- DIST DIST FUEL
MAG SR ---- ----- USED FLOW
FREQ FL WIND CRS HDG AIRWAY TAS GS TIME TIME REMN /ENGS
------ --- ----- --- --- ------ --- --- ---- ----- ------ -----
CHKPNT NAME
-----------

KJFK N40 38.4 W073 46.7 1253 000200
. . . 005808

ROBBINSVILLE
RBV N40 12.1 W074 29.7 CLB CLB 02 042 0042 000763
113.80 CLB 30031 243 248 DCT 344 334 0.08 00.08 005245 04255


TOC CLB CLB 01 041 0083 001018
CLB 31060 239 247 DCT 434 413 0.06 00.14 004990 02546

NOTTINGHAM
OTT N38 42.4 W076 44.7 M56 39 02 097 0180 001358
113.70 430 30057 239 246 DCT 454 431 0.13 00.27 004650 01526

BOOYA N38 24.3 W077 21.8 M57 36 02 034 0214 001481
430 30054 248 254 J42 453 424 0.05 00.32 004527 01520

GORDONSVILLE
GVE N38 00.8 W078 09.2 M58 52 02 044 0258 001638
115.60 430 30048 246 251 J42 452 425 0.06 00.38 004370 01513

PULASKI
PSK N37 05.3 W080 42.8 M59 52 01 134 0392 002115
116.80 430 29042 251 255 DCT 451 420 0.19 00.57 003893 01499

VOLUNTEER
VXV N35 54.3 W083 53.7 M60 53 01 169 0561 002709
116.40 430 29040 250 253 J22 450 422 0.25 01.22 003299 01483

CALCO N34 20.7 W086 01.2 M61 53 05 140 0701 003183
430 30048 231 236 J22 449 433 0.19 01.41 002825 01467

VULCAN
VUZ N33 40.2 W086 54.0 M62 53 04 059 0760 003384
114.40 430 30045 227 233 J22 448 432 0.08 01.49 002624 01454

DELBE N33 13.8 W087 33.6 M62 53 04 043 0803 003528
430 29043 230 235 J22 447 426 0.06 01.55 002480 01452

MERIDIAN
MEI N32 22.7 W088 48.3 M63 53 03 081 0884 003801
117.00 430 30041 228 233 J22 447 428 0.12 02.07 002207 01442

ALEXANDRIA
AEX N31 15.4 W092 30.1 M63 53 06 200 1084 004493
116.10 430 30047 246 251 DCT 447 414 0.29 02.36 001515 01432


TOD M62 50 05 053 1137 004679
430 29045 246 249 DCT 447 410 0.07 02.43 001329 01425

VIERA N30 44.5 W094 02.8 DSC DSC 03 032 1169 004727
DSC 29051 246 249 DCT 464 422 0.05 02.48 001281 00637

COMBS N30 23.3 W094 25.8 DSC DSC 01 029 1198 004784
DSC 25042 220 223 DCT 397 359 0.06 02.54 001224 00572

DAISETTA
DAS N30 11.4 W094 38.7 DSC DSC 01 016 1214 004825
116.90 DSC 22034 219 219 DCT 334 300 0.03 02.57 001183 00858

DAETN N30 06.3 W094 54.1 DSC DSC 01 015 1229 004864
DSC 19028 245 241 DCT 305 289 0.03 03.00 001144 00733

INNIS N30 02.1 W095 06.8 DSC DSC 01 011 1240 004896
DSC 17026 245 240 DCT 282 275 0.03 03.03 001112 00606

REHAB N29 59.6 W095 14.3 DSC DSC 00 007 1247 004918
DSC 16024 245 240 DCT 259 260 0.02 03.05 001090 00591


KIAH N29 59.1 W095 20.5 DSC DSC 00 006 1253 004944
DSC 15024 261 256 DCT 256 264 0.01 03.06 001064 01999

ALTERNATE (MACH LRC)
NIL

CODED ICAO FLIGHT PLAN

(FPL-XXXXX-IG
-F2TH/M-SXWHIGRYJZ/S
-KJFK1400
-N0454F430 DCT RBV DCT OTT J42 GVE DCT PSK J22 MEI DCT AEX DAS8
-KIAH0306
-REG/XXXXX SEL/XXXX DOF/091022 DAT/V RMK/TCAS EQUIPPED NAV/RNP10
E/0351 P/TBN D/2 14 YELLOW A/WHITE GRAY)
KZNYZQZX




--- END-OF-PLAN RC202001

[TTJJ]

HI
I have never used it, but the instructions say to put in your route.

The required inputs into the application are:
The aerodromes of departure and arrival

The ATC route points followed by the flight (i.e. details taken from the route described in field 15 of the ICAO flight plan)

The maximum take-off weight of the aircraft (in metric tonnes rounded to one decimal place).


The result will show:

The total charge in Euro, excluding any applicable Value Added Tax,

By Member State of EUROCONTROL, the distances flown and amounts.