Survival Gear - what do you personally carry with you?

[canwhitewolf]

Alaskan & Canadian
Survival Kit Regulations (not sure if this is current)

http://www.equipped.com/ak_cnda.htm


seems to me the present regs are crappy and weak and leave a lot to be desired, the old regs at least showed some knowledge of what might be needed.

[canwhitewolf]

The only item more dangerous than an axe is a hatchet. You DO NOT need them! If you insist on cutting stuff, pack a small saw, preferably one that will break down.(for example: http://www.modernoutpost.com/gear/photos/ui/ui_buck.jpg ) You want to cut a tree in half? I can cut any sized log in two with no axe, hatchet or knife. Just give me a lighter, and a few hours, and I'll burn it in half.

What's important? Shelter, fire, water, and first aid. Everything else is extra weight in a modern crash example, since the herc will find you in 48 hours, worst case.
Just MHO.

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survivorman would disagree.

good saw tho

as to the herc finding you in 48 hrs thats not always so

ron boychuk crashed in bc somewhere probably near lytton in 2007 and hasnt been found to this day

Survivorman isn't a god, and after watching his episode on arctic survial, he proved it. He made some basic cold weather survival mistakes that would have cost him big time had it been colder out. Great show though, overall, I learn lots.

The best part about the saw is it's aluminum tubing and it breaks down into a single tube, and it only weighs a few ounces. Over the years I would always bring my saw and an axe, and after a week in the bush, I'd be wondering why I brought the axe in the first place... it never got used.

As for my rescue philosophy, I assume that my ELT will work, and I assume someone will be looking for me. Therefore, I don't bring more than a couple days of food, but lots of water capabilities, and the tools to find more food if it should so happen that I spend more time in the bush. Having a survival handbook is paramount, as it'll provide ideas that you'll never think of.

Once again, the majority of pilots are not very good with an axe, and I doubt many have even split wood with an axe before, or ever tried to chop a dead tree down with an axe. It's not fun, nor is it safe for a rookie to be weilding an axe. A hatchet is even worse, and the last thing a downed aviator needs after surviving a crash is having to do first aid on a foot with an axe sticking in it.

So in a nutshell, this is what's important to me:
multiple ways to signal a would be rescuer
Fire
water
a way to make a shelter, which means lots of nylon cord, and a saw.

The rest is added weight, or comfort stuff.

\
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sure and I agree what you say makes a lot of sense, I do like the saw a lot but would worry about it breaking and then be without a tool to build a shelter

as to axe or knife- my personal view only was that given a choice between knife or axe i would take a small quality axe, It Can cut through Ice for ice fishing, its a better weapon,
if desperate i could build a better quality shelter that would last better than a lean to that i had when camped out at little whale river off northern hudsons bay years ago, where it got quite miserable and i felt really vulnerable animal wise (at night especially)

I agree most people could hurt themselves with an axe , but so with a knife as well, our forefathers were masters at the axe and we are not. but we should learn at least how to use one safely if we are going to be put into a possible survival sitattion, shouldnt be too hard to learn the safety side

the episode of survivor man i was referring to was the one in northern ontario where he simulated crashing in winter in a plane, that is where i believe he stated the absolute necessity of the axe in the canadian wilderness.

but to each his own, personally given a choice i would have a knife and an axe and that saw in the plane survival kit, maybe the woodmans pal is a compromise
http://www.olive-drab.com/od_edged_weap ... _lc14b.php
http://www.cabelas.com/prod-1/0049088517835a.shtml

the old regulations for survival kits in canada were far better, they included axe saw knife etc and took the owner operator profits out of the equation for carrying more cargo in replace of survival euipment, particularly in the canadian north or bush country

a survival kit for a plane should not assume rescue in 2-3 days in sparse locations

[canwhitewolf]

this old book from 1916 might be good reading for general interest , a lot of the info still valid today

Horace Kephart's Camping and woodcraft

http://www.wcu.edu/library/digitalcoll/ ... riting.htm

[Bushav8er]

When it comes to float aircraft, I've always thought that a hatch should also be on the bottom of a float (compartment) which contains the survival stuff. Right side up in the woods or upside down in the water it would be accessible - get out first, then get the gear. Lets face it, usually your kit is at the back under all the crap that you loaded and its hard enough to get to even at a dock when you decide - oh, I need that.

[Slats]

as to axe or knife- my personal view only was that given a choice between knife or axe i would take a small quality axe, It Can cut through Ice for ice fishing, its a better weapon

Let's be realistic here. If a critter is small enough that an axe is going to hurt/deter it, it isn't something you really need to be scared of. For the kind of predators that a human being really needs protection from, nothing short of a 12 guage shotgun or powerful rifle will suffice. Realistically the only predators in Canada that a person needs to worry about are bears. And even if you can steady your quivering knees long enough to swing an axe as an 800 pound grizzly charges you, and manage to hit it, it will without any doubt seriously injure or kill you momentarily thereafter and it will be not much the worse for wear. The only "predators" I could see an axe causing any significant damage to, would be the smaller ones that are generally not known to attack average size adult humans, ie: wolves and cougars, but even if they did you're still probably screwed anyways since wolves hunt in packs and you'll never see or hear the cougar coming until it's already claw-deep into your back. I don't know why shotguns aren't more prevalent (or better yet, required) in bush flying survival kits. They are an incredibly versatile life-saving survival tool. They are the best predator defence weapon (a healthy dose of buckshot and slugs will stop even the big bears), they can be used to provide food (with the proper ammunition they can take anything from small game right up to larger game such as deer or caribou) and with aerial flares they are a very effective signalling device.

As far as the axe/hatchet/knife/saw debate goes, in the survival course I took, we were taught that in addition to having a higher potential for injury, swinging an axe to cut trees uses up more valuable energy reserves than does using a saw. It makes sense, for the amount of work accomplished, the push/pull action of a saw is much more efficient than swinging a 5 pound axe. However I still think that all 3 have a valuable place in a survival kit. A saw is the best way to fell trees for shelter and buck up firewood. An axe or hatchet is the best way to split that firewood. I think anyone would be foolhardy not to ensure a good high quality fixed blade knife is in their survival kit. Personally I think a 12 guage, small axe or hatchet, break-down saw, heavy duty fixed blade knife, water purification device, first aid kit, little fishing kit, means of starting fire and a decent length of cord or rope would be a pretty damn good basis for a survival kit that doesn't take up much that much space and isn't inordinately heavy. Throw in some other little odds and ends as one sees fit, maybe even some fancy stuff like a gps and SPOT tracker and you're in good shape. Again, far better to fly along with a survival kit that takes up a little bit of space/weight than to find yourself in a survival situation with your sardine can of bandaid, fishing line and match wishing you had some decent gear.

When it comes to float aircraft, I've always thought that a hatch should also be on the bottom of a float (compartment) which contains the survival stuff. Right side up in the woods or upside down in the water it would be accessible - get out first, then get the gear. Lets face it, usually your kit is at the back under all the crap that you loaded and its hard enough to get to even at a dock when you decide - oh, I need that.

I've heard somewhere that 1'x2' holes in the bottoms of your floats are a bad thing.
Our Beaver has the tail cargo hatch accessible from the outside on the pilot side of the aircraft. I keep my kit, which is in a Sealine drybag backpack, just inside that hatch. That way, if I need to go swimming to get it in an inverted situation, I don't have to risk going through the aircraft to get it, I can access it from the outside (in theory.)

[canwhitewolf]

as to axe or knife- my personal view only was that given a choice between knife or axe i would take a small quality axe, It Can cut through Ice for ice fishing, its a better weapon

Let's be realistic here. If a critter is small enough that an axe is going to hurt/deter it, it isn't something you really need to be scared of. For the kind of predators that a human being really needs protection from, nothing short of a 12 guage shotgun or powerful rifle will suffice. Realistically the only predators in Canada that a person needs to worry about are bears. And even if you can steady your quivering knees long enough to swing an axe as an 800 pound grizzly charges you, and manage to hit it, it will without any doubt seriously injure or kill you momentarily thereafter and it will be not much the worse for wear. The only "predators" I could see an axe causing any significant damage to, would be the smaller ones that are generally not known to attack average size adult humans, ie: wolves and cougars, but even if they did you're still probably screwed anyways since wolves hunt in packs and you'll never see or hear the cougar coming until it's already claw-deep into your back. I don't know why shotguns aren't more prevalent (or better yet, required) in bush flying survival kits. They are an incredibly versatile life-saving survival tool. They are the best predator defence weapon (a healthy dose of buckshot and slugs will stop even the big bears), (in theory.)

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yes i would agree that it would be better to have a .308 or 12 Gauge, what are the regulations for carrying guns in a plane? can you do it all the time?

try cutting through a foot or two of ice with a knife or saw, harder work id suspect, but as i said id rather have all three, knife axe and saw, but given a choice of only one id take the axe

[canwhitewolf]

There is a site called http://www.knifetests.com and he tests knives to destruction there. One of the "survival" knives is called Cheaper Than Dirt, $9, and it performs better than several of the very expensive knives. Check it out for a few surprises.

He also demonstrates how to chop wood with the knife, for those skeptics who are dependent on an axe.

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just for info here i tried to order a few knives from cheaper than dirt .com and was advised that their policy is not to ship to Canada ( or apparentlyinternational)


maybe we should have a policy that stops shipping oil to the USA as its getting ridiculious

[Slats]

yes i would agree that it would be better to have a .308 or 12 Gauge, what are the regulations for carrying it in a plane? can you do it all the time?

Why not, if it's transported in accordance with firearm regulations? I can carry hunters' firearms all the time.

[C-FKLY]

That kit looks great, niss! Just a few things I would add:


Duct Tape -- don't leave the house without it

Toilet Paper -- no, not for the shitter (though you may want to use it for that...), but a couple of squares in a Ziploc bag, for starting a fire. I know, it's entirely possible to start one without, BUT, in some situations a bit of paper makes it much easier. Although, that being said, you should also have tons of AVGAS around either way...

Pristine or other Water Purification -- I agree with what you said about the pump; however, pumps can and do break. The Pristine bottles are small and light, and purify water in 10 minutes.

Orange Marking Tape -- If you do decide to make a hike for it, this can come in really handy - mark trees with it as you hike, so you can find your way back to the plane if you have to. Not to mention it's not a bad signaling/attention grabbing device, either.

Oh, and check and see if that pump screws onto a Nalgene bottle or not -- and if it does, you may want to bring/pack a Nalgene. It's much easier to pump water into a screwed-on bottle than it is to get it into a bladder bag...


Just curious, how much does the kit weight?

[Slats]

Toilet Paper -- no, not for the shitter (though you may want to use it for that...), but a couple of squares in a Ziploc bag, for starting a fire.

Another good (and free) alternative is a ziploc full of dryer lint. Lights just as easily but provides a better, longer lasting flame and you can squish tons of it into a bag.

Another tip that I alluded to earlier is to go through your kit semi-regularly and examine what's in there and familiarize yourself with it. Make sure you know how to use the items you have in there. It's all well and good to have a water filter or break down saw, but if you don't know how to use it or assemble it, it won't do you much good. Also examine the contents for expiration dates, wear, etc. When I recently examined mine and removed the winter items, I discovered that while my glow sticks have one more year left before expiry, my little waterproof personal strobe beacon contained dead batteries.

[Old Dog Flying]

One item if flying in tall tree country is a good flare gun...USAF survival type that will fire a flare 250'...well above the trees. Some of the we(s)t coast kits have flare guns that will not clear a split rail fence let alone a stand of fir.

One of these days I'll have to check out my survival kit

Niss: Are you flying CF-UBC a 1968 Cherokee 140???? I operated it at the Moose Jaw Flying Club many many years ago.

Barney

[Donald]

Reminds me of when the survival expert opened up our aircraft kit to demonstrate our equipment.

He couldn't get the stove to light, despite a liberal amount of fuel and ideal conditions (i.e. at the hangar and not life-or-death)!

[Cat Driver]

The choice of weapon for self protection from real dangerous unpredictable animals such as Hippos, Rhinos and Cape Buffalo is a perplexing one because it takes a real powerful weapon to stop them.

I found that carrying a flare pistol gave me the best method of stopping them should they decide to charge. A real plus was all the cats such as Lions, Leopards etc. are scared shitless of fire and the flare pistol is perfect for changing their minds about attacking you.

One day I fuckin near stepped on a black mamba on a trail in Kenya luckily I saw the thing in time to step back and we each went our own way. I would rather die of syphilis than die from a black mamba bite.

Anyhow just thought I would add my thoughts to this subject.

[Slats]

The choice of weapon for self protection from real dangerous unpredictable animals such as Hippos, Rhinos and Cape Buffalo is a perplexing one because it takes a real powerful weapon to stop them.

That's why I'm saving my pennies for a Marlin 1895 Guide Gun in 45-70 calibre. Nice and compact for the back of the plane.....Grizzlies, hippos, rhinos.....if that sucker doesn't stop them, you're probably dead anyway. Not too mention it just might be the most beautiful looking gun ever. Only problem from a survival standpoint is that while it can stop anything up to a freight train in it's tracks, rifles just aren't as versatile as shotguns.

[canwhitewolf]

dltd

[dashx]

So........ Niss....

do you plan to add to your kit???????

Or leave it as is?????

[black hole]

The real reason that you carry a good signal mirror, is so that you can look at it and see who's lost. A constant reminder of how you forgot to do decent flight planning.


BH

[niss]

So........ Niss....

do you plan to add to your kit???????

Or leave it as is?????

Well, I do have to review everything and I want to add stuff to it, but that said in a couple of weeks me and my buddy are going to take the kit and go to a local piece of bush and spend the night there with just the survival kit so I can get a feel for how it is.

Will post pics!

[canwhitewolf]

dltd

[canwhitewolf]

impressive little saw , id certainly carry one

available at mountain equip coop i believe as well

Gerber Sportsman's / Survival Saw

http://tinyurl.com/oz4am6