King Air E90 Cockpit

[tca]

There was a question in a locked thread regarding the position of the gear and flap handles in a King Air E90.

74_KingAirE90.jpg (57.42 KiB) Viewed 2705 times

The gear handle is on the right hand side of the power quadrant, and is shaped like a wheel. (some models of BE90 have the gear handle to the left of the power quadrant, however I believe that the model in question has it on the right side, as in this picture). The flap selector is on the power quadrant, below the condition levers, and is shaped like an aerofoil section.

Pretty hard to confuse.... but not impossible. However, I want to know why someone would want to retract the flaps before the A/C was firmly on the ground, especially on a decent sized runway like YWG!

[SAR_YQQ]

While not familiar with the previous thread - there are a few steps required to inadvertently retract your gear on the ground in the BE9L. It's not quite as simple as just selecting gear up.

Our fleet of 90's uses a similar setup for gear handle selector - mostly because we fly the machine as a dual crew.

[tca]

The landing gear selector was inadvertently selected up when an attempt was made to raise the flaps immediately after touchdown. The ground/air safety switch was not yet in ground and all three gear cycled up. The aircraft settled onto the runway and was substantially damaged. There were no injuries.

The handle was raised before the squat switch engaged, so there was no hook interlock to prevent you from moving the handle, so the gear responded accordingly. So the a/c must have either been bouncing or not actually on the ground firmly when the handle was moved. Runway 18 at YWG is 11,000' long! plus, the a/c in question most likely was trying to get to an FBO/hangar at the far end of that runway (off Charlie, near the button of 36). In the King Air that I fly, that is heavier than a 90, I won't select flaps up until I know that we are firmly on the runway, even on a 3500' gravel strip! This whole scenario baffles me...

[username:]

Why is the other thread locked up???

[tca]

Why is the other thread locked up???

Not sure, but may have something to do with naming the company involved. I made sure to not name any names. The CADORS file linked does name them, however, so it's not exactly a secret; but let's try to stop this thread from getting locked too.

[Prairie Chicken]

I can certainly see it! This is a scenario that always worried me with my previous employer. Almost the first item on our after-landing c/l was flaps up, & it was very common for the PNF to slap the flap handle up long before clearing the active. I don't know how often I squawked, growled, and vehemently requested the PNF NOT raise the flaps immediately after touch down! I don't think I ever slapped any hands, but I certainly felt like it. It seems my concerns were justified.

[tca]

I can certainly see it! This is a scenario that always worried me with my previous employer. Almost the first item on our after-landing c/l was flaps up, & it was very common for the PNF to slap the flap handle up long before clearing the active. I don't know how often I squawked, growled, and vehemently requested the PNF NOT raise the flaps immediately after touch down! I don't think I ever slapped any hands, but I certainly felt like it. It seems my concerns were justified.

I don't mind having the flaps brought up once we're on the runway... it does help with braking... but at least wait until I've pulled the power into BETA.... plus if i want to clear at the end, no rush whatsoever! But if my PNF ever leaned forward towards that gear handle, I would slam the power levers into full reverse and proceed to give their head the biggest slap of its life!
I thought that maybe they were given a LAHSO clearance and maybe they were rushed to get stopped before the intersection with 13/31 (the CADORS said there was a PAG metro on final for 13), but after looking it up, there is 7279' of LDA, so moot point (I could probably get a KA stoped in 7279' with no brakes and 2 failed engines!).

[Doc]

People, we just are not THINKING! It's as simple as that. And it's contagious throughout the industry. Pilots have stopped thinking.
THINK, people! THINK!!

And that's it on the subject from me. You all KNOW how I feel about this kind of thing.

[ywglocal]

Maybe this is a reason some SOPs/POHs now suggest not touching the flaps while on the runway?

[ywgflyboy]

Referring back to the previous locked thread.
1. Someone has some explaining to do.
2. Rw18 is 11,000feet long. The location said airline needed to taxi to is at the furthest point from rw18. Was it really proper airmanship to even attempt to raise the flaps while still in a flare? Not like this was by any means a short field landing.

[Flybaby]

The gear handle is on the right hand side of the power quadrant, and is shaped like a wheel. (some models of BE90 have the gear handle to the left of the power quadrant, however I believe that the model in question has it on the right side, as in this picture). The flap selector is on the power quadrant, below the condition levers, and is shaped like an aerofoil section.

I thought you were wrong about that because all the 90's I've seen have been to the right of the power quadrant, but after scanning through Airliners.net, it seems you can have the handle on either side. Still wouldn't make much of a difference to remember because the flaps are in the same place.

[ahramin]

I think all E90s have the gear handle on the right side. All F90s have the handles on the left side. At some point in the 1990s the gear handle on the C90s moved from the right to the left.

[Doc]

I'd spend your time worrying about where the pilots' heads are at, rather than where the bloody gear lever is located! Hopefully, part of your training would include the why and wherefore of the gear handle??
Let's see everybody jump in here and rant about "company culture" on this subject?
As a group, we really need to pull our heads out of our asses here, kids.
These "mistakes" are happening WAY too often. Unless they did it on purpose, which I sincerely doubt.

[SAR_YQQ]

There really is no excuse for mistaking the flap selector for the gear handle. I fly these things on a daily basis and accumulate quite a number of cycles on the aircraft. The flap selector is conveniently located near the PM's left hand - the gear handle requires more of a reach. Even without the downlock hook - the gear handle requires a aft-pull while being selected down - unlike the flap selector which requires a pull to the right.

All of our 90's were specifically bought and retro-fitted with the handle on the right side, same with our old Bombardier contract 90's. Our POH's show the handle on the left side, by the lighting panel.

[ahramin]

SAR in the civvy world the payscale usually dictates who sits in which seat. Either seat may be PF/PM.

All modern single pilot aircraft that I have flown have the gear handle on the left.

[flyinhigh]

Never flown a beech before but I do have lots of turbine time. so my question is this.

Why the pluck would you be in a rush to lift the flaps to begin with, thats what beta and reverse is for. I my mind this is a perfect example of inexpierence, i cannot see any reason to be touching anything other than the thrust levers while 5feet up or on the runway until you are at taxi speed, that includes being in a 30 knot 90 degree cross wind.

So is the beech susseptible to something here that makes this a standard op, sounds like from reading here it is...

[rigpiggy]

Sop's on the KA200 normally require flaps up on landing due to it's propensity to burn a tire if you don't have weight on the wheels. Other KA's maybe similiar.

[bcflyer]

Flew a BE-10 for almost 2000 hrs into tons of short gravel strips and not ONCE did I feel a need to raise the flaps to help with braking. (and never burnt a tire) Once you are into beta the plane is stuck to the runway and ain't going anywhere! I can't remember the exact SOP's we used but I'm %99 there was no touching of anything until we were clear of the runway or at least down to a slow taxi speed. To start grabbing levers etc while at a high speed is a recipe for disaster!

[Doc]

Never do anything stupid, fast.
Matter of fact, never do anything in an airplane, fast.
Almost nothing needs to be done "right now" in an airplane.
Flaps....leave them until you're on the ground during roll out.
Other things. Anti-ice etc. clear of runway, and only touch the things on YOUR side of the cockpit.
Your coat cuff could snag a gear lever if you're in the habit of reaching across to turn off the pitot heat etc.
Leave things alone.
I once had a chap shut down both engines on a Twin Otter with his parka hood. That was fun.
I once feathered the right prop on a Dak over Lake Erie when I hit the feathering button with my head. I was getting out of my seat to make coffee when we hit a big "chunk" of turbulence.
Point is, there's enough inadvertent shit out there that can bite your ass, no sense compounding matters by groping around for switches and knobs in a dark cockpit.
Think. That's all it takes. Thought.

Most things that go wrong in an airplane are caused by "finger trouble". Your fingers are where they shouldn't be. Or, they aren't where they should be....

Slow it down...

[SAR_YQQ]

BE90 checklist that I carry calls for flap selections to be made as apart of the post-landing check - nothing but BETA/Reverse on the roll out.