Desk driver. I never said Jetsgo was in great shape. Isaid our loads were good and given the low operating cost I would be surprised if we were loosing money. I was wrong. Big deal, I guess you have the crystal ball of aviation in your over there! Please PM your address, I'd love to come over check out the future of Canadian aviation.
I don't have time to look up the post, but fairly resently I also said that despite my thoughts on the situation it did not mean Mikey would not close the doors any day! We were both right i guess.
Hey! the way I look at is that the future lays before me and I learned a shitload in my 8 short months with the company.
I have never to my own recollection defended Mikey the white himself...I have defended the people who worked there.
CBC talking about the JetsGo pilot paying and getting f*cked
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog
It's really too bad we as pilots can't just step up on our own and do something as simple as say "NO FU#$ING WAY" when we're asked to front unsecured money in order for a job. Instead we now need the gov't to protect us from ourselves and our coworkers.
I for one would never agree to paying for the job (even though it's paid back over time, with interest, bla, bla, bla), but if some good could come from this situation by somehow making these practices illegal, looked down upon, or by removing the ppc altogether I would be all for it. It stops my fellow pilots from buying a job just to jump to the front of the line ahead of me or someone else who doesn't believe it's right to pay for the right to work.
Bears a striking resemblence to the way nhl owners want protection from themselves and each other by having the players sign to a salary cap!
I for one would never agree to paying for the job (even though it's paid back over time, with interest, bla, bla, bla), but if some good could come from this situation by somehow making these practices illegal, looked down upon, or by removing the ppc altogether I would be all for it. It stops my fellow pilots from buying a job just to jump to the front of the line ahead of me or someone else who doesn't believe it's right to pay for the right to work.
Bears a striking resemblence to the way nhl owners want protection from themselves and each other by having the players sign to a salary cap!
Training bonds.
The training bond controversy is not new; pilots, new and not so new, have been plagued by companies demanding bribes for employment for many years. As with any bribe, I think our contempt should be reserved mostly for those taking the graft, and have a little sympathy for the guys who feel they have to pay to get a job.
I also have problems understanding the business logic behind the system of bribes-whoops, I mean training bonds; I am not a student of economics, I have difficulty in understanding how a credit card works, for example, but the administration costs of collecting bribes, I mean training bonds, banking the cash, keeping track of who owes what to whom, must be substantial.
Here`s a thought-wouldn`t logic dictate that an individual who arrives at a company with 10,000 hours and a relevant type endorsement be in line for a large bag of money from the company for bringing all his assets to that company. Guess what people-it has happened! Ryanair in Ireland did
it some years ago, but if you join Ryanair without the necessary endorsements, then you pay for the check out, and buy your own uniform.
I have just retired after a number of years in the industry and I have come to the conclusion that there are only two certainties in the flying profession-nothing stays the same, and the law of supply and demand rules. There is really nothing we poor slaves can do about it but , as Confucius said, if rape is inevitable, relax, lay back, and enjoy it- I did!
I also have problems understanding the business logic behind the system of bribes-whoops, I mean training bonds; I am not a student of economics, I have difficulty in understanding how a credit card works, for example, but the administration costs of collecting bribes, I mean training bonds, banking the cash, keeping track of who owes what to whom, must be substantial.
Here`s a thought-wouldn`t logic dictate that an individual who arrives at a company with 10,000 hours and a relevant type endorsement be in line for a large bag of money from the company for bringing all his assets to that company. Guess what people-it has happened! Ryanair in Ireland did
it some years ago, but if you join Ryanair without the necessary endorsements, then you pay for the check out, and buy your own uniform.
I have just retired after a number of years in the industry and I have come to the conclusion that there are only two certainties in the flying profession-nothing stays the same, and the law of supply and demand rules. There is really nothing we poor slaves can do about it but , as Confucius said, if rape is inevitable, relax, lay back, and enjoy it- I did!
Esse quam videre.
First of all that is one F*cked up way to look at things. Second, there is something you can do about it, don't give out $30, 000 to work for anyone.There is really nothing we poor slaves can do about it but , as Confucius said, if rape is inevitable, relax, lay back, and enjoy it- I did!
Funny how it says "JetsGo pilot getting f*cked". Noone held a gun to their heads and forced them to pay out $30,000, they f*cked themelfs and all the rest of us in this industry. I'm sure some will disagree, but I really don't care. The only people that are going to change aviation are the pilots..... when they stop selling themselfs and everyone else out.CBC talking about the JetsGo pilot paying and getting f*cked
So i guess the typical Canadian thing to do now is ask for a gov't bailout....Nice. You knew the risks, were aware of the conditions and ML screwed another generation of pilots.
I think the bankruptcy judge should allocate funds to these guys. It's going to be bad enough associated with this thing and having to look for work. Can we all agree not to pay for training by a personal loan. A bond is something different and many airlines still have it- just a commitment to stay for a period of usually three to five years with no liability if something like this happens. The personal loan thing is crap. No more paying for jobs !
I think the bankruptcy judge should allocate funds to these guys. It's going to be bad enough associated with this thing and having to look for work. Can we all agree not to pay for training by a personal loan. A bond is something different and many airlines still have it- just a commitment to stay for a period of usually three to five years with no liability if something like this happens. The personal loan thing is crap. No more paying for jobs !
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Kelly Harmsworth
- Rank 2
- Posts: 61
- Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:46 pm
- Location: Regina Saskatchewan
- Contact:
so who get's screwed when an employer gets a pilot his ppc? Then the next day the pilot up and quits to go work for someone else. I'm just wondering as an employer is it wrong then to require that a pilot has all the training required before being hired? do you guys think that if a pilot has to go somewhere and rent a pa31 to get a ppc, that that means that he bought his job. I appologize if this sounds sarcastic. I'd just like to know what average joe pilot thinks.
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Canus Chinookus
- Rank 7
- Posts: 707
- Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 6:30 pm
Ok, I'm finally throwing in my 2 cents. As said before, no one forced you to get that loan, no one forced you to accept a paycheck from Leblanc. You rolled the dice, and you lost. Expensive lesson, maybe learned, maybe not.
And before you've go and flame me, I too, have been a part of the bond/loan process. The difference was that I had the tough decision to stay with a certain company, or quit and advance my career faster, but eat a big bond in the process. I too rolled the dice, but it worked out for me. At least, so far it's working out for me; I ended up with a company I believe in, and my career goal.
Don't get me wrong, I am truly sorry for the guys that lost their jobs, and for those of you I know, I'll do whatever i can(if you call) to help you find work. What I won't do, is throw some money in the kitty for all those guys who are on the hook for 30G. You rolled the dice, and it didn't work out.
A job is all about supply and demand. We've all seen it with the crash of the '.com' industry a few years ago. We see it every day with every 250 hour wonder getting his resume thrown in the mud somewhere up north in buttfuk nowhere because, as usual, no-time(or wrong time, or not enough time) pilots are a dime a dozen. I too was unfortunate enough way back when to be looking for work in the middle of a major recession. Some of us 'made it', others remustered and are doing something maybe related to flying, maybe not. When someone asks me how I got where I am today, I joking reply with, "I was too stupid to quit". I guess I was mostly joking. Whether I was too stubborn to quit, or too stupid, or strong has yet to be announced, I guess I'll know that answer when I turn 65(maybe 60 by then).
The SG pilots weren't the only ones who lost. We've all lost because of what happened, but the funny thing is, most of us would probably still roll the dice next time around, maybe it'll work out, maybe not. Just do your best to play the odds. I think life is all about that too, to be honest.
It's been said you shouldn't post after having a few drinks... or tired.. I'm both tonight, but, I had to say it.
Cheers, here's to rolling the dice, I hope it works out better next time for ya.
And before you've go and flame me, I too, have been a part of the bond/loan process. The difference was that I had the tough decision to stay with a certain company, or quit and advance my career faster, but eat a big bond in the process. I too rolled the dice, but it worked out for me. At least, so far it's working out for me; I ended up with a company I believe in, and my career goal.
Don't get me wrong, I am truly sorry for the guys that lost their jobs, and for those of you I know, I'll do whatever i can(if you call) to help you find work. What I won't do, is throw some money in the kitty for all those guys who are on the hook for 30G. You rolled the dice, and it didn't work out.
A job is all about supply and demand. We've all seen it with the crash of the '.com' industry a few years ago. We see it every day with every 250 hour wonder getting his resume thrown in the mud somewhere up north in buttfuk nowhere because, as usual, no-time(or wrong time, or not enough time) pilots are a dime a dozen. I too was unfortunate enough way back when to be looking for work in the middle of a major recession. Some of us 'made it', others remustered and are doing something maybe related to flying, maybe not. When someone asks me how I got where I am today, I joking reply with, "I was too stupid to quit". I guess I was mostly joking. Whether I was too stubborn to quit, or too stupid, or strong has yet to be announced, I guess I'll know that answer when I turn 65(maybe 60 by then).
The SG pilots weren't the only ones who lost. We've all lost because of what happened, but the funny thing is, most of us would probably still roll the dice next time around, maybe it'll work out, maybe not. Just do your best to play the odds. I think life is all about that too, to be honest.
It's been said you shouldn't post after having a few drinks... or tired.. I'm both tonight, but, I had to say it.
Cheers, here's to rolling the dice, I hope it works out better next time for ya.
Rubberbiscuit wrote:CYYC, you need to pull your little peanut sized head out of you phucking ass!
Go back and read all associated posts and threads before you pipe up.
I am not optimstisk about getting my money back
As far as us calling our MP's. It is not because we wan't them to call Mikey at home and ask for our money. We are hoping to get the governments attention in this, which is also the reason for all the pilots bringing the issue up in newspapers and on TV.
Hopefully we can make training bonds what they are anyway, illegal!!
And if you just wanted your money back I'd be glad... But talking to bureaucrats will not "help" "us."
-Rant Edited out-
Kelly,
Again, there is a big difference between a stock standard bond ie. a commitment not to leave for a period of time, where the employee is liable only if he or she leaves before the bond is up. The jetsgo thing was a personal loan, putting the onus on the pilots up front with a bank. A completely different transaction with complete liability with the pilot. It's wrong and should not even be an option. Ever ! It's diminishes our profession and in a word is BUSH.
Again, there is a big difference between a stock standard bond ie. a commitment not to leave for a period of time, where the employee is liable only if he or she leaves before the bond is up. The jetsgo thing was a personal loan, putting the onus on the pilots up front with a bank. A completely different transaction with complete liability with the pilot. It's wrong and should not even be an option. Ever ! It's diminishes our profession and in a word is BUSH.
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Meatservo
- Rank 10
- Posts: 2565
- Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2005 11:07 pm
- Location: Negative sequencial vortex
Hi, I think there are other factors involved than just whether or not it's fair to have to get a loan to pay a bond. I mean, you have to look at the company and what they offer in terms of stability, benefits, salary, job satisfaction, and career advancement. I've never had to get a bond, but that's just luck. My next job, I probably will have to, but you have to be careful.
Some things that bug me more than bonds:
1)Low initial pay-some of you guys will work for almost nothing, I don't know how you do it. We should refuse to work for less than our provicial minimum wage, for one thing.
2)No time off- A human being in the western Hemisphere DESERVES at the very least days off in a ratio of 2 off for every five worked-it's basic for your own dignity. Your boss doesn't own you. I can see if you have no hobbies, or no girlfriend, or no kids, or no requirement for enjoying what little of your life is left over after you've sold most of it to some jerk (see(3))for peanuts (see(1)), you might work more than this, but you should get paid extra, the same way civilised people(sewer workers, loader operators, night club bouncers, etc) do.
3) Jerks- Is it me, or has anyone else noticed whenever you get offered a job, and you get all worked up over it, then someone you trust says: "don't work there, they don't treat their guys well, and all the pilots hate it there" Haven't you heard this? Or, has anyone NOT heard this? I guess I would work for a jerk if I had to, and try not to take the abuse personally. Maybe I wouldn't pay a bond at one of these places though. Here's another one. If your boss tells you "pilots are a dime a dozen" it's time to start looking for a new job. They aren't. It's hard to find good pilots. There are, however, people out there who are willing to work for 1/12th of a dime,(see(1)) Well, you get what you pay for. You know who you are. Toss into that, second-guessing your weather decisions, wondering why you're cranky after working for 30 days in a row, offering you a raise because your wife is threatening to leave you unless you come home once in a while, there's a lot of jerks out there, these guys don't deserve your bond money.
4) No benefits-How come I don't get benefits? My brother screws lids on at the jam factory, HE gets benefits. I'm not expecting you to put my kids through college or plan for my retirement, but for pete's sake let me get my teeth cleaned or something! Free coffee doesn't count.
5) No Opportunity for advancement-Okay, so you want me to pay you $16,000 dollars, you want to pay me $2000 a month, live in mega city where the rent is 1000 bones a month, no benefits of course, 3 days off a month, for two years, well, okay, What kinda planes you got? A (PC-12/caravan/turbo Otter/ Navajo-pick one)??? That's IT? F**K You!
So, I guess if someone was offering me a job with fair pay, the same days off as anyone else who works for a living, was reputable and fair, offered me some reason to want to stay there beyond my paycheque, and had some equipment I'd be interested in flying, in other words a REAL job, yeah, I guess I would pay a bond. I mean, you get it back eventually, if you can stand working there.
That's the big problem. They're not offering you very much for your investment. The "love of flying" is not an equivalent substitute for renumeration.
It's not the bonds that are the big problem here. It's the guys who are willing to put up with these working conditions that are making it odious to stay at any one company long enough to live up to the terms of a bond. And who would be stupid enough to get a loan that big, and fork it over to someone else in return for that little, without at least making sure the loan was insured, or that there was something in the contract about your money being safe if the company goes tits-up?
Some things that bug me more than bonds:
1)Low initial pay-some of you guys will work for almost nothing, I don't know how you do it. We should refuse to work for less than our provicial minimum wage, for one thing.
2)No time off- A human being in the western Hemisphere DESERVES at the very least days off in a ratio of 2 off for every five worked-it's basic for your own dignity. Your boss doesn't own you. I can see if you have no hobbies, or no girlfriend, or no kids, or no requirement for enjoying what little of your life is left over after you've sold most of it to some jerk (see(3))for peanuts (see(1)), you might work more than this, but you should get paid extra, the same way civilised people(sewer workers, loader operators, night club bouncers, etc) do.
3) Jerks- Is it me, or has anyone else noticed whenever you get offered a job, and you get all worked up over it, then someone you trust says: "don't work there, they don't treat their guys well, and all the pilots hate it there" Haven't you heard this? Or, has anyone NOT heard this? I guess I would work for a jerk if I had to, and try not to take the abuse personally. Maybe I wouldn't pay a bond at one of these places though. Here's another one. If your boss tells you "pilots are a dime a dozen" it's time to start looking for a new job. They aren't. It's hard to find good pilots. There are, however, people out there who are willing to work for 1/12th of a dime,(see(1)) Well, you get what you pay for. You know who you are. Toss into that, second-guessing your weather decisions, wondering why you're cranky after working for 30 days in a row, offering you a raise because your wife is threatening to leave you unless you come home once in a while, there's a lot of jerks out there, these guys don't deserve your bond money.
4) No benefits-How come I don't get benefits? My brother screws lids on at the jam factory, HE gets benefits. I'm not expecting you to put my kids through college or plan for my retirement, but for pete's sake let me get my teeth cleaned or something! Free coffee doesn't count.
5) No Opportunity for advancement-Okay, so you want me to pay you $16,000 dollars, you want to pay me $2000 a month, live in mega city where the rent is 1000 bones a month, no benefits of course, 3 days off a month, for two years, well, okay, What kinda planes you got? A (PC-12/caravan/turbo Otter/ Navajo-pick one)??? That's IT? F**K You!
So, I guess if someone was offering me a job with fair pay, the same days off as anyone else who works for a living, was reputable and fair, offered me some reason to want to stay there beyond my paycheque, and had some equipment I'd be interested in flying, in other words a REAL job, yeah, I guess I would pay a bond. I mean, you get it back eventually, if you can stand working there.
That's the big problem. They're not offering you very much for your investment. The "love of flying" is not an equivalent substitute for renumeration.
It's not the bonds that are the big problem here. It's the guys who are willing to put up with these working conditions that are making it odious to stay at any one company long enough to live up to the terms of a bond. And who would be stupid enough to get a loan that big, and fork it over to someone else in return for that little, without at least making sure the loan was insured, or that there was something in the contract about your money being safe if the company goes tits-up?
K Harmsworth ------ I personally wouldn't pay you for training on anything. IF I was going to though and you required me to sign a document stating that I WAS LEGALLY REQUIRED to work for you afterwards for some pre-determined time.......then you have crossed a line and have no legal leg to stand on........because that is already termed by the Supreme Court of Canada as "indentured servitude" and we haven't had that since 1806. You may require me then to repay the amounts that it cost you to train me if I leave, but THAT'S IT.
That is also a "two-way street" and such agreement would be signed between me and YOU......not me and your COMPANY NAME. That way, if you or someone else decides that the company is going to falter and go into bankruptcy, YOUR butt is on the line to loose something more than just YOUR business because YOU did not legally honour YOUR part of the signed agreement and YOU still owe me the full training or a pro-rated monetary amount for the training I did not receve. This is now the 21st Century and trust, promises, hand-shakes and a person's word started to disappear along about the time of the 1956 Chevy BelAir. You will always maintain the Right as an employer to dismiss me "for cause" AND I also maintain the Right to dismiss you as my employer "for cause".
That is also a "two-way street" and such agreement would be signed between me and YOU......not me and your COMPANY NAME. That way, if you or someone else decides that the company is going to falter and go into bankruptcy, YOUR butt is on the line to loose something more than just YOUR business because YOU did not legally honour YOUR part of the signed agreement and YOU still owe me the full training or a pro-rated monetary amount for the training I did not receve. This is now the 21st Century and trust, promises, hand-shakes and a person's word started to disappear along about the time of the 1956 Chevy BelAir. You will always maintain the Right as an employer to dismiss me "for cause" AND I also maintain the Right to dismiss you as my employer "for cause".
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complexintentions
- Rank 10
- Posts: 2183
- Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 3:49 pm
- Location: of my pants is unknown.
Training bonds.
merlin wrote:First of all that is one F*cked up way to look at things. Second, there is something you can do about it, don't give out $30, 000 to work for anyone.There is really nothing we poor slaves can do about it but , as Confucius said, if rape is inevitable, relax, lay back, and enjoy it- I did!
First of all, Merlin, there`s no need to swear at me. Secondly, I agree
totally with your position on paying to work for a company; I cannot think of a way that a pilot can justify paying for his own endorsement; it screws up the career structure-only those applicants with money can apply, and
ensures that the system of employee paid check-outs becomes more and more engrained in the aviation companies`way of doing business.
However, what I meant by relaxing and enjoying it was that the situation that exists now will change, and the demand for pilots will momentarily exceed the supply. In the meantime we have to get on with our careers the best we can and enjoy it. I have never flown anything over 52,000 lbs., I have just a very little time in a jet, and finished my career on a Dash 8, but I have flown in many different parts of the Globe, met lots of great people, and have enjoyed myself.
Esse quam videre.
Meat,
Good post, good intentions but to add a few points. A bond is NOT an investment and not a LOAN. You should not have to PAY anything. A bond as far as most respectable companies is a transparent agreement with ZERO financial implications unless you leave. Period. The problem is that everyone thinks they will be left behind if they don't take this job or turn down that job. Our industry should not allow ML and the like to be even allowed to offer these contracts. I agree with your other points and hope this industry can get it's respect back. DO NOT PAY ANYTHING for employment. Would you expect it in any other profession?
Good post, good intentions but to add a few points. A bond is NOT an investment and not a LOAN. You should not have to PAY anything. A bond as far as most respectable companies is a transparent agreement with ZERO financial implications unless you leave. Period. The problem is that everyone thinks they will be left behind if they don't take this job or turn down that job. Our industry should not allow ML and the like to be even allowed to offer these contracts. I agree with your other points and hope this industry can get it's respect back. DO NOT PAY ANYTHING for employment. Would you expect it in any other profession?
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mister mofo
- Rank 1
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:38 am
- Location: CYYZ
Odds are that owner has fucked over more pilots than the reverse will ever happen. In the grand scheme of most air operators, pilots PPC's and salaries is chump change.Kelly Harmsworth wrote:so who get's screwed when an employer gets a pilot his ppc? Then the next day the pilot up and quits to go work for someone else. I'm just wondering as an employer is it wrong then to require that a pilot has all the training required before being hired? do you guys think that if a pilot has to go somewhere and rent a pa31 to get a ppc, that that means that he bought his job. I appologize if this sounds sarcastic. I'd just like to know what average joe pilot thinks.
... let's go kick the tires and slip the surly bonds ...
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Meatservo
- Rank 10
- Posts: 2565
- Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2005 11:07 pm
- Location: Negative sequencial vortex
Well, you're right, I guess, it's not necessarily an investment, there's an additional distinction, are you "paying" for a type endorsement on some obscure aeroplane that no-one else uses, or are you getting a checkout on something useful? For us small-plane guys, the Cessna Caravan comes to mind. Some companies require a bond for this aircraft, but I think it's useful to have the PPC, depending on where you're willing to work, a good C-208 pilot can make as much as 5 or 6k a month, especially if you have some off-strip experience or some float experience. Might come in handy if you ever had to get a job in a hurry to keep the bills paid, say, if you got laid off when your jet company goes belly-up. There's two ways to get this training-pay for it yourself, or pay a bond, the lesser of two evils is the bond, at least it might get paid back. I should say that it never really gets paid back; most guys get a raise when their bond is paid off, this really means that out of the $4000 per month they can affordto pay you, $3000 goes to you, and $1000 goes to the bank, when the bank is paid off, they can afford to give you the raise. On the other hand, who pays the new guy the most they can afford anyway? I wouldn't.
Anyway, there was a time that I swore up and down that I would never fork over a red cent to anyone for a job. The fact is, however, that like the rest of you, I can't afford to dig my heels in and wait for things to change until everyone is willing to make a stand on the issue. That'll never happen. What we need is a messiah! A Howard Roark for aviation! At one time, I thought this was me, no-one who did the bond thing was going to benefit from my superior skills, no sir, but then the reality of seeing some of my pals go to work for air canada started to bug me, then a guy I fired turned up in the right seat of a 7something7, and then my wife started to ask me if we were ever going to live in the same city, and the cockpit of my Otter started to look smaller and louder and crummier, and people kicking the back of my seat in the caravan started to bug me more and more, and I started to get tired of drinking my coffee from a travel mug like a trucker(no offense, truckers). Well, you get the picture. I like what I do, but when you've reached the top of your particular field of endeavour (I think of myself as a "Bush" pilot) you can feel that ceiling looming over you and you realise that this is what it's going to be like for the next 30 years unless I start paying some BONDS!
The real enemies are the guys who offer jobs like the one I saw on the employment forum the other day- Jetstream or something like that, Captain, previous heavy time required, previous command time required, experience on Allison or Garrett engines required, living in Toronto, and what were they offering as renumeration in addition to the honour of working for them? $4000 a month. Give me a break. Turn it sideways and ram it. Like I said, the joy of flying is not a reasonable substitute for pay. Maybe people who are qualified as above should hold out for a decent job.
I'm sorry to admit it, but as soon as I find an employer that offers a reasonable renumeration PACKAGE, has well maintained planes, has opportunity for professional development of some kind, and who treats their employees respectfully, whether they are pilots or not, I will pay the goddamn bond. I'd rather not, but I would.
Anyway, there was a time that I swore up and down that I would never fork over a red cent to anyone for a job. The fact is, however, that like the rest of you, I can't afford to dig my heels in and wait for things to change until everyone is willing to make a stand on the issue. That'll never happen. What we need is a messiah! A Howard Roark for aviation! At one time, I thought this was me, no-one who did the bond thing was going to benefit from my superior skills, no sir, but then the reality of seeing some of my pals go to work for air canada started to bug me, then a guy I fired turned up in the right seat of a 7something7, and then my wife started to ask me if we were ever going to live in the same city, and the cockpit of my Otter started to look smaller and louder and crummier, and people kicking the back of my seat in the caravan started to bug me more and more, and I started to get tired of drinking my coffee from a travel mug like a trucker(no offense, truckers). Well, you get the picture. I like what I do, but when you've reached the top of your particular field of endeavour (I think of myself as a "Bush" pilot) you can feel that ceiling looming over you and you realise that this is what it's going to be like for the next 30 years unless I start paying some BONDS!
The real enemies are the guys who offer jobs like the one I saw on the employment forum the other day- Jetstream or something like that, Captain, previous heavy time required, previous command time required, experience on Allison or Garrett engines required, living in Toronto, and what were they offering as renumeration in addition to the honour of working for them? $4000 a month. Give me a break. Turn it sideways and ram it. Like I said, the joy of flying is not a reasonable substitute for pay. Maybe people who are qualified as above should hold out for a decent job.
I'm sorry to admit it, but as soon as I find an employer that offers a reasonable renumeration PACKAGE, has well maintained planes, has opportunity for professional development of some kind, and who treats their employees respectfully, whether they are pilots or not, I will pay the goddamn bond. I'd rather not, but I would.
I used to work for an auction company and saw many bankruptcy's. I know in two bankruptcy's that people had put a deposit down for goods, one for $5K. When the comapny went under the people lost the whole deposit and there was nothing they could do about and they never did get one cent back at all.
As for the Jetsgo training bond, I really beleive the pilot's are all out of luck and have lost it. It would be good to hear from one of the Jetsgo pilots a they can tell us all what is going on with these training bonds.
As for the Jetsgo training bond, I really beleive the pilot's are all out of luck and have lost it. It would be good to hear from one of the Jetsgo pilots a they can tell us all what is going on with these training bonds.
Meatservo, right on. "A human being in the western Hemisphere DESERVES at the very least days off in a ratio of 2 off for every five worked-it's basic for your own dignity. Your boss doesn't own you."
Who made the duty day 14 hrs long and the other requirements to work everyday in a row? The employers thats who.
Something for CAAP to look at.
Who made the duty day 14 hrs long and the other requirements to work everyday in a row? The employers thats who.
Something for CAAP to look at.
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Rubberbiscuit
- Rank 8
- Posts: 754
- Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 3:02 pm
First of all CYYZ, I apologize for the first paragraph in my last post. It was uncalled for.
As far as the Jetsgo pilots and their Bond, all I can say is that we have a lot of iron's in the fire and when I can release some info I will.
I knew when I started I was taking a risk. I did not like handing over 30K.
In retrospect I belive the reason Leblanc required a bond was to keep you on a leash, not because of taining costs because he intended to treat you like shit. What I mean is that he knew we would all be looking for work pretty quickly, since working 13.8hr duty days all the time and flying a 100hrs a month gets to you after a while. I think alot of guys including myself blew it off as a result of rapid expansion. I don't think Mikey ever intended to keep enough staff on hand. He did not care about on time performance. he just wanted to prove to a potential buyer that 6 flights a day is doable and that adds up to more tickets.
Without the bond guys would have been gone pretty quickly. The company could not keep up with the training the way it was.
Oh well! Lesson learned and time to move on.
The problem with bonds where no cash transaction is required is that again, it only works if the company treats you well. I know several companies that used this type of contracts and pilots leave early without consequeses, since the company does not wan't to take this to court and turn it into a nasty legal battle.
I have to admit with Jetsgo that I was naive and did not see the forest for all the tree's! The good news is that the only airline in Canada that required cash up front is gone and ticket prices are up, and this will strenghten the remaining carrier's.
Now I truly know why bond's are out there and I would like to discourrage anybody from handing over cash. Take it from me I learned the hard way.
Cheers!!
As far as the Jetsgo pilots and their Bond, all I can say is that we have a lot of iron's in the fire and when I can release some info I will.
I knew when I started I was taking a risk. I did not like handing over 30K.
In retrospect I belive the reason Leblanc required a bond was to keep you on a leash, not because of taining costs because he intended to treat you like shit. What I mean is that he knew we would all be looking for work pretty quickly, since working 13.8hr duty days all the time and flying a 100hrs a month gets to you after a while. I think alot of guys including myself blew it off as a result of rapid expansion. I don't think Mikey ever intended to keep enough staff on hand. He did not care about on time performance. he just wanted to prove to a potential buyer that 6 flights a day is doable and that adds up to more tickets.
Without the bond guys would have been gone pretty quickly. The company could not keep up with the training the way it was.
Oh well! Lesson learned and time to move on.
The problem with bonds where no cash transaction is required is that again, it only works if the company treats you well. I know several companies that used this type of contracts and pilots leave early without consequeses, since the company does not wan't to take this to court and turn it into a nasty legal battle.
I have to admit with Jetsgo that I was naive and did not see the forest for all the tree's! The good news is that the only airline in Canada that required cash up front is gone and ticket prices are up, and this will strenghten the remaining carrier's.
Now I truly know why bond's are out there and I would like to discourrage anybody from handing over cash. Take it from me I learned the hard way.
Cheers!!
