Lucky RedBull recovery

[bmc]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d5b_1275818947

[linecrew]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, when it comes to the Red Bull Air Races, it's just a matter of time...

[bmc]

I'm impressed/amazed there have not been more incidents. Curious to know how cities approve of these races with such close proximity to land/water, people and buildings.

[hairdo]

That was pretty close! Good save though!

[linecrew]

Remember this accident in Australia a couple of months ago?

[cgzro]

Hig G turn and if you are not co-ordinated the low wing stalls first, rolling you upside down.
I'm guessing they will mandate some changes to the airfoils and add a bit of washout so the root stalls before the tip. Either that or reflex the ailerons a bit mixed with elevator application. Alternatively the pilots can hold a bit of top rudder during the turn and if there is a stall it will be the upper wing that lets go and the snap will be to upright which is probably slightly safer.

This is why its so important to be co-ordinated in any low altitude turns, or if you must be un-co-ordinated to have the rudder pressed towards the sky ... 'top rudder'.

Lucky guy...

[robbreid]

http://www.redbullairrace.com/cs/Satell ... 8611393596

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d5b_1275818947

[Maynard]

Don't forget hannes stall and pylon take out earlier on in practice runs.

[petpad]

The Aussie pilot was extremely lucky... it's only a matter of time.... a Red Bull pilot will crash and die before too long... let's hope it's not going to be the Canadian

[bmc]

Peter...your posy is a leading reason why I enjoy Avcanada so much. I get to learn from seasoned pros such as yourself.

Thanks

[Brewguy]

... Curious to know how cities approve of these races with such close proximity to land/water, people and buildings.

Not really sure how much say the host cities have in it. I'd have to assume its handled in the same manner as any other air show. When I was involved in planning/running an air show, the only thing the city was involved in was a special even permit and public health wanting to inspect food vendors, and make sure we had enough porta-potties. For the rest, we dealt with TC.

In order to get the special event operating certificate, TC needed a site plan showing the show line, crowd line, etc. They are the ones who determine how far back people have to be. Beyond that, the pilots have to have the appropriate license, and ICAS competency card / waiver.

I don't see too much difference between an aerobatic performer being allowed to do stuff at surface level over pavement and these race guys.

[Jaques Strappe]

....and how many people have been killed over the years in motorsport racing? I think it would be somewhat hypocritical for people to get their panties in a twist because of two hits with the water and no scratches on anyone thus far.

[r22captain]

a Red Bull pilot will crash and die before too long... let's hope it's not going to be the Canadian

uuummmm i hope no one does.....from any country

[linecrew]

....and how many people have been killed over the years in motorsport racing? I think it would be somewhat hypocritical for people to get their panties in a twist because of two hits with the water and no scratches on anyone thus far.

You're honestly going to comapre the two as if they were one in the same in terms of risk factor? Really?

[Big Pratt]

They are aware of the risks and willingly choose to accept them.

Same as these guys, especially in the last decades.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Sn ... _accidents

BP

[Invertago]

Not to hijack, but how much of that flight can he count as float time, seems there is a gray area when dealing with amphibs.

[cgzro]

Transport Canada and the FAA are primarily concerned with crowd safety, as a result most of the regulations around airshows have to do with safety of the spectators. The actual pilot qualifications are left to a self regulating system administered by current airshow pilots (ICAS) to recommend new pilots to perform. These qualifications are graduated to lower and lower altitudes each season and may have restrictions on aircraft type/manoeuvers. TC and the FAA will only allow a pilot that has passed this self regulating system to perform in an airshow/race.

I'm pretty sure the races are no different than a normal airshow in terms of crowd safety and pilot competency but the turn arounds probably have to be carefully planned to make sure they are far from crowds, or are flown away from or perpendicular to the crowds. I also imagine that the self regulation for red bull air races is done by the senior pilots deciding on the junior pilots.

[Jaques Strappe]

....and how many people have been killed over the years in motorsport racing? I think it would be somewhat hypocritical for people to get their panties in a twist because of two hits with the water and no scratches on anyone thus far.

You're honestly going to comapre the two as if they were one in the same in terms of risk factor? Really?

Yes I am. Red Bull are fanatical when it comes to mitigating risk. Please enlighten me as to how this is any more risky than say open wheel car racing or Moto GP bike racing?

[linecrew]

....and how many people have been killed over the years in motorsport racing? I think it would be somewhat hypocritical for people to get their panties in a twist because of two hits with the water and no scratches on anyone thus far.

You're honestly going to compare the two as if they were one in the same in terms of risk factor? Really?

Yes I am. Red Bull are fanatical when it comes to mitigating risk. Please enlighten me as to how this is any more risky than say open wheel car racing or Moto GP bike racing?

Well for one, I think that the vehicles in motorsport racing are designed to withstand a tremendous amount of impact in the event that there is a crash and the crowds are well protected. When it comes to the Red Bull air races the incredibly high skill levels of the pilots are pretty much their best protection and it's also much riskier for the spectators. Perhaps not at the Windsor venue but go watch them in person (as I have) in some of the other countries where the races are held and you'll know what I mean. Many parts of the race have the aircraft flying in close proximity to and directly at at the spectators along the course.

That being said, the added risk is what I think makes this show what it is and why we are all drawn to them. It's not "just another airshow".

[Jaques Strappe]

Linecrew

I have been to three Red Bull Races so far at three different venues and honestly felt no less secure than being a spectator at an air show. If you look at the reports regarding the inspection of Adilson Kindlemann's aircraft post impact, you will see that various parts of the aircraft are designed to absorb energy from impact while the cockpit provides as much protection as possible for the pilot. I don't have the "official report" but here is an article with quotes from people much more involved in the sport than you and I are and who's opinions, I respect.

http://www.redbullairrace.com/cs/Satell ... 2838824957

Also, here is a list of auto racing fatalities from various venues. Interestingly, the highest concentration is from a group who drives closed wheel cars on a banked oval track. The open wheeled guys who race at higher speeds on non banked tracks seem to have a lower fatality rate. Since car racing has been around for quite some time, obviously they have higher numbers, particularly in the early years. However, even in recent years, they are still getting fatalities.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/motor/earnhardt/list.htm

We haven't even looked into the motorcycle racing fatalities yet. How many die on average during each run of the Dakar? How about this article entitled " Dakar Rally Death Toll"?

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/dakar ... -3147.html

My only point being, many things we do and watch or get a thrill from these days involve elevated levels of risk and I think Red Bull does a fantastic job of mitigating risk to both the pilot and the spectator. It would be a real shame to see people put in an effort to scare everyone when the actual statistics reveal something quite the opposite. I wonder how many people die each year at a air shows? If people like those at TC get involved, there will be no more venues to watch. If it was something that was super dangerous then I would applaud that effort. However, in my opinion, I don't think we are anywhere near there and nor is the Red Bull Air Race circuit.