The importance of having a degree

[photofly]

People can only vote for candidates who get to the point of being nominated by their parties, so the choice is rather limited. I’m not sure it’s fair to tar an entire nation, or province.

[rookiepilot]

People can only vote for candidates who get to the point of being nominated by their parties, so the choice is rather limited. I’m not sure it’s fair to tar an entire nation, or province.

This is true. I do feel some of the best and brightest refuse to let their names stand, the experience is now so dirty and negative. In particular I find the practice of outside parties, like special interest groups, running negative ads during elections under the guise of (supposedly impartial) "concerned citizens" reprehensible.

How that is any better than the potential FB related election meddling in the US, I do not see.

Do you agree?

[Bede]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/canada- ... -1.4579205

"Second Closet is an online storage startup where customers use a website to schedule a pickup so their belongings can be stored at the company's warehouse. Another online booking brings their stuff back when it's needed.

The founder, 22-year-old Mark Ang of Toronto, was inspired to start the business because of his own need for storage. "My brother and I had moved out, and we had a very tiny condo. I honestly just needed a second closet," Ang said.

Mark Ang
Second Closet founder Mark Ang charges by the size of the items that need storage. He says customers that rent entire lockers end up paying for wasted space. (CBC News)

Despite their age, the two brothers managed to raise $500,000 from investors and launched the business last year. Now with five trucks and 25 employees, Second Closet is growing quickly, adding about 100 new customers a month. Some are storing items as small as a bankers box, for $3 per month (plus a flat rate delivery charge of $25)."

I admire these kids, or the one who worked in the patch for 5 years, more than peeps getting a liberal arts degree at York, while living off mommys wallet.

Which path, even if this business fails, would grant more invaluable experience for the rest of ones life?

I'm not one to trump up my education, but the one thing I did learn is what survivorship bias is.

[rookiepilot]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/canada- ... -1.4579205

"Second Closet is an online storage startup where customers use a website to schedule a pickup so their belongings can be stored at the company's warehouse. Another online booking brings their stuff back when it's needed.

The founder, 22-year-old Mark Ang of Toronto, was inspired to start the business because of his own need for storage. "My brother and I had moved out, and we had a very tiny condo. I honestly just needed a second closet," Ang said.

Mark Ang
Second Closet founder Mark Ang charges by the size of the items that need storage. He says customers that rent entire lockers end up paying for wasted space. (CBC News)

Despite their age, the two brothers managed to raise $500,000 from investors and launched the business last year. Now with five trucks and 25 employees, Second Closet is growing quickly, adding about 100 new customers a month. Some are storing items as small as a bankers box, for $3 per month (plus a flat rate delivery charge of $25)."

I admire these kids, or the one who worked in the patch for 5 years, more than peeps getting a liberal arts degree at York, while living off mommys wallet.

Which path, even if this business fails, would grant more invaluable experience for the rest of ones life?

I'm not one to trump up my education, but the one thing I did learn is what survivorship bias is.

I don't follow. You are alluding that founding a successful business is based on the same premise and odds as winning a lottery?

[digits_]

The comics are written by an engineer, so maybe you need a degree to understand them as well...

Maybe this will help:
https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index. ... rship_Bias

[rookiepilot]

The comics are written by an engineer, so maybe you need a degree to understand them as well...

Maybe this will help:
https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index. ... rship_Bias

Everyone who ever succeeded in business, or any career, like the top levels of aviation, was "lucky".

Is that the consensus? I suspect I am still not following. Oh well ---

[digits_]

So you are saying everyone who works hard will succeed in business?

Talking in absolutes never (pun intended) helps anyone. Read the explanation if you are genuinly interested and don't understand the joke.

[rookiepilot]

So you are saying everyone who works hard will succeed in business?

No -- like any career, some natural aptitude and intelligence is important.

But A) Its an essential component, and B) over the long haul luck has little to do with it. Over the short run, may be a different story.

[Bede]

rookiepilot,

Nothing but respect for you. I presume you started a successful business which is something that I don't think that I have the skill set for.

It's just that your comment reminded me of this comic. There are a lot of "I dropped out but made millions" type stories out there. Unfortunately, a far greater percentage of drop outs don't make millions. That's survivorship bias. That's what this comic is getting at.

[rookiepilot]

rookiepilot,

Nothing but respect for you. I presume you started a successful business which is something that I don't think that I have the skill set for.

It's just that your comment reminded me of this comic. There are a lot of "I dropped out but made millions" type stories out there. Unfortunately, a far greater percentage of drop outs don't make millions. That's survivorship bias. That's what this comic is getting at.

There is something In between failure and what we might consider spectacular success that is possible.

There are here at home -- and actually more often, where I (occasionally) volunteer my time teaching business principles in developed countries -- (where it's an essential option if there are no jobs or social services) -- individuals that start and maintain profitable small businesses that can support a family -- with a lot of hard work.

The best businesses, in my view, are conceptually very simple. Maybe a degree isn't what is most important. Look at a franchise like 1800 Got Junk. As simple as it gets, but genius!

I think Its a good option for someone to fit into their skill set, and it's too bad it is not encouraged as a career choice here in Canada very much.

I agree a lack of high quality -- and we can debate on the quality of education in Canada -- education is a detriment to a professional level career, but it need not be a fatal one.

At the skyrocketing expense level for a good school, is it always worth it? I'm not sure.

[photofly]

Does anyone remember Kevin O’Leary’s comment on the Dragons’ Den, to yet another person who was trying to pitch a board game?

Something about how the world is full of ‘A’ students working for ‘C’ students.

[rookiepilot]

Does anyone remember Kevin O’Leary’s comment on the Dragons’ Den, to yet another person who was trying to pitch a board game?

Something about how the world is full of ‘A’ students working for ‘C’ students.

I didn't catch that, but it makes perfect sense.

Sometimes I believe it isn't all about brains, but a motivated, independent personality comfortable with a certain degree of risk and a work ethic.

I do not believe we encourage some of these traits in Canada, ie we are too cautious and are security seekers.

In many other countries people have no secure choices, and must make it work.

[confusedalot]

Back to the OP, I personally have not seen any correlation between non aviation formal education and cockpit job performance (and I have one of those little aviation college diplomas where I had to do calculus, big deal). Seen good and not so good regardless of diplomas/degrees or lack thereof.

When you get down to it, you don't even need a high school diploma to be a good pilot, you need to know your stuff so obviously you need a capacity to learn, possess what is commonly referred to but hard to define as common sense, an ability to multitask, and a minimum of hand eye coordination that is known in the business as hands and feet, an ability to communicate, and the ability to work with others if operating in a multi crew environment. All are required and need to function simultaneously in order to avoid, shall we say, irregular outcomes.

BUT

The theoretical HR world of our time does not always work that way, what impresses the current regime are diplomas and degrees, so, practically speaking, well, play the game and if you can, get some papers. A political science or law degree will go a long way to impress the gatekeepers who know nothing about what operating airplanes is all about but having said that, nothing wrong with having additional qualifications.

One of the most important and heavily weighted elements, more than your technical qualifications or experience, for success at big company interviews, are pretty much the same things you find on the internet, namely, impressing the interviewer by demonstrating how you answer questions such as why you should be hired instead of the other guy, what makes you better, why you are the best qualified, what you have done above and beyond the call of duty, what makes you stand out, etc.....

I was never good at interviews, can't say what makes me better than the other guy

Cheers.

[C.W.E.]

When you get down to it, you don't even need a high school diploma to be a good pilot,

I only have grade eight, is that enough to become a good pilot?

[confusedalot]

When you get down to it, you don't even need a high school diploma to be a good pilot,

I only have grade eight, is that enough to become a good pilot?

Well, if you have the capacity to learn, I guess you can. Hey, I am not the first to point that out, the only requirement according to the authorities is the capacity to read and write. Nowhere is it stated that you need high school completion. later on of course, you'll need to get through the other gauntlets so if your grade 8 knowledge gets you through it, well, fine.

I will leave it to you what constitutes a ''good'' pilot. Have encountered a couple who did not finish high school that were operating just fine but admittedly, don't know the exact level they did.

My eastern european father, with a grade 6 education having left war torn europe, and therefore zero educational opportunities, managed to start a business and live in an upscale part of town that I could never afford as a pilot. No shit.

[C.W.E.]

Well confusedalot I managed to do quite well as a pilot with only grade eight.

I flew for a living for fifty one years and as the years passed and my flying experience increased so did my earning capacity increase.

I do not recall ever being asked how much education I had and I worked for some of the biggest companies in the world, all the work I got in the last twenty or so years of my career was by recommendation from previous employers and there was no need for them to ask how much education I had.

Of course the more education one has the better in most occupations but driving airplanes is one occupation where you can be successful with basic education.

[HansDietrich]

I think this thread needs to be wrapped up. The horse has been beaten to death... and made into bratwurst.

Everyone has a point and a counter argument...

[confusedalot]

Well confusedalot I managed to do quite well as a pilot with only grade eight.

I flew for a living for fifty one years and as the years passed and my flying experience increased so did my earning capacity increase.

I do not recall ever being asked how much education I had and I worked for some of the biggest companies in the world, all the work I got in the last twenty or so years of my career was by recommendation from previous employers and there was no need for them to ask how much education I had.

Of course the more education one has the better in most occupations but driving airplanes is one occupation where you can be successful with basic education.

Well there you go, concords with my observations. Only did 36 years and pretty much the same thing, had a good reputation and was generally hired because someone knew me, not because I had a diploma.

[AnotherUselessPilot]

Well confusedalot I managed to do quite well as a pilot with only grade eight.

I flew for a living for fifty one years and as the years passed and my flying experience increased so did my earning capacity increase.

I do not recall ever being asked how much education I had and I worked for some of the biggest companies in the world, all the work I got in the last twenty or so years of my career was by recommendation from previous employers and there was no need for them to ask how much education I had.

Of course the more education one has the better in most occupations but driving airplanes is one occupation where you can be successful with basic education.

My father dropped out of high school in grade 10 and got a job at a factory. The wage he earned was enough to buy groceries, pay rent, own a decent car, and get drunk every weekend.
With his earnings, he was able to provide a decent life for my brother and I, and afford a house before he turned 30 in a single income family.
That house is now worth over 2 million.

Could somebody do the same today?
If you're going to give advice like that, you should at least be forthcoming and include in your post the year you entered the industry.

The truth is, a bachelor's degree is the new expectation in our modern society. Police officers, nurses, accountants, etc. are all expected to have degrees.
Back in the day, all you needed to be a cop was to be 6ft tall, white, blue eyes, 200 lbs, and know how to sign your name. Every police force now requires post secondary education. Either military or a bachelor's to be competitive.
It is no longer hiring a person with experience vs. a person with a degree. The people with experience also have degrees.
Air Canada could discard the resume of every non-degree applicant and still have significantly more applications than positions available, even at the best of times, with the pilot shortage in full effect.
Right or wrong, this is the modern world we live in today. If you want to be successful, get an education.

[C.W.E.]

If you're going to give advice like that, you should at least be forthcoming and include in your post the year you entered the industry.

If your reading comprehension was above grade eight and you could do basic math you would have a fairly good idea when I entered the industry by understanding what you are reading.....so here try again.

I flew for a living for fifty one years and as the years passed and my flying experience increased so did my earning capacity increase.

Like I said one does not have to have a high level of education to be a pilot.