Buying a PA30

[ybwflyguy]

Looking into buying a Piper Twin Commanche for use as a Multi IFR trainer. Does anyone have any tips on important things to look for specific to this make and model? Any horror stories? Most seem to be fairly priced, low time with old avionics.

Mods - Please feel free to move to a more appropriate forum, didn't want to put this in the classifieds section.

[broompusher]

I did my ME rating and my initial group 1 on a PA30 back in 02', great trainer aircraft, the only problems I remember it having where the Gen's failed fairly often. I remember the instructors saying it would be better if it had alternators in it vs. Generators, but was that was an expensive change.

[Jungle Jim]

There's a real nice one based out of Edenvale. Definitely worth a look.

Jim

[Beefitarian]

Who remembers when you could rent several different multi engine planes in the Calgary region including a c-310 and take them on a trip if you could afford the $150+/hour wet?

Feel free to one up me with tales of less expensive rates etc.

[Hedley]

a Piper Twin Commanche for use as a Multi IFR trainer

You really want to use a 40 year old airplane as a trainer? I hope you're an AME.

I have a great idea - why doesn't the air force buy some F-104's to replace the F-18's?

[Highflyinpilot]

Is 40 a year old plane really an issue if it was well maintained???

[Hedley]

Define "well-maintained".

A 40 year old airplane should somewhere along the line have received new engines, new props, new exhaust, new paint, new interior, new glass, new avionics, new fuel systems (bladders, pumps, etc), new landing gear, new (gasoline) heater.

It should really also have all-new electrical wiring and hardware (switches, cct breakers) including lights, beacons, strobes.

Depending upon how much salt it has seen, and how many cycles, it may also require new skins and new spars.

No one does the above, because it is not economically viable to do so. You want to spend $500,000 on an airplane which might fetch $100,000 afterwards? Neither does anyone else.

Sure, you can "maintain" an aircraft so that after a while, the only original part on it is the dataplate. How thick is your chequebook?

[FlaplessDork]

They are a very efficient airplane for its class. You can get 175kts true out of them with about 8gph per side. 3 - 4 people with full fuel, 3-4 adults and 2 kids if you put in the optional baggage area seats.

They suck on the maintenance side. Good luck trying to find parts for them.

[KK7]

Define "well-maintained".

A 40 year old airplane should somewhere along the line have received new engines, new props, new exhaust, new paint, new interior, new glass, new avionics, new fuel systems (bladders, pumps, etc), new landing gear, new (gasoline) heater.

It should really also have all-new electrical wiring and hardware (switches, cct breakers) including lights, beacons, strobes.

Depending upon how much salt it has seen, and how many cycles, it may also require new skins and new spars.

No one does the above, because it is not economically viable to do so. You want to spend $500,000 on an airplane which might fetch $100,000 afterwards? Neither does anyone else.

Sure, you can "maintain" an aircraft so that after a while, the only original part on it is the dataplate. How thick is your chequebook?

Does this apply to 40 year old pilots as well Hedley?

[I Я Instructor]

Looking into buying a Piper Twin Commanche for use as a Multi IFR trainer. Does anyone have any tips on important things to look for specific to this make and model? Any horror stories? Most seem to be fairly priced, low time with old avionics.

Mods - Please feel free to move to a more appropriate forum, didn't want to put this in the classifieds section.

I'm guessing you're writing on behalf of SAFTI. My suggestion to you is to sit J and some of the fractional owners down and offer the twin to them while maintaining it to commercial standards for the flight school side. I would get something like a DA42. Considering the other 2 twins on the field are old and/or down you might end up taking business from the other 3 schools that way. There is no point in putting money in old aircraft.

[CPLMike89]

Flapless is right, great on gas and gets you there fast but when maintenance comes due its time to use that swiss bank acount.

Mike W

[co-joe]

The one with the counter rotating props is really fast and great with either engine out...but I think it's twice as expensive to maintain. I also remember seeing them with ray jay turbo chargers. Apparently parts are impossible to find and they increase the chances of students blowing the engines to pieces ten fold.

Nothing wrong with a 40 year old airplane. For a trainer you want cheap, reliable, and terrible single engine performance so students learn you have to be bang on your numbers and your 5 degrees to the good engine. If you have power to burn it's really easy to be lax on your procedures and fail or learn bad habits that can kill you later. A short AD list never hurt either, not sure the PA30 meets this criteria...

[Lurch]

I would get something like a DA42. Considering the other 2 twins on the field are old and/or down you might end up taking business from the other 3 schools that way. There is no point in putting money in old aircraft.

P you crack me up

Lurch

[mag check]

I've got a PA 30 for sale, in Ontario. Q-tip, low times, new leather, flies nice. PM if you are interested.