Ridiculously blunt salary question.
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Ridiculously blunt salary question.
Right to the point-
How long after getting your first flying job did you (if ever) break 85k /yr?
Answer if ya want... if you don't, then don't!
I'm in a job I love right now bringing home 5500/mo net, however I'm embarking on an entry level flying job hunt (CPL checkride next week!)
I'm trying to ballpark a realistic perspective of how long it'll take before I'm in the same salary range. I'm hearing answers that range from a few years to a decade.
It will make the difference of whether to hold off for another year and bank up as much as possible.
I'm interested to hear your stories.
PM of course if you want to keep financial info more discrete.
Cheers
Dan
How long after getting your first flying job did you (if ever) break 85k /yr?
Answer if ya want... if you don't, then don't!
I'm in a job I love right now bringing home 5500/mo net, however I'm embarking on an entry level flying job hunt (CPL checkride next week!)
I'm trying to ballpark a realistic perspective of how long it'll take before I'm in the same salary range. I'm hearing answers that range from a few years to a decade.
It will make the difference of whether to hold off for another year and bank up as much as possible.
I'm interested to hear your stories.
PM of course if you want to keep financial info more discrete.
Cheers
Dan
Re: Ridiculously blunt salary question.
Still haven't made that on my T4, 15years in the buisness....now EMB FO....
Re: Ridiculously blunt salary question.
3 years after.
Going for the deck at corner
Re: Ridiculously blunt salary question.
Free advice, Dan:
Don't be "just a pilot". The happiest and most successful people I know have some significant other activity in their lives, in addition to aviation. An example would be the Air Canada pilot in Toronto who is also an MD.
You "other gig" can be anything that you enjoy, and hopefully makes some coin, which sure will come in handy for the first few years of your career as a pilot. It might be carpentry, landscaping or guitar playing.
Being a pilot, after you've finished paying your dues, is a bit like being a fireman. Odds are you will end up with a substantial amount of free time, so having a side gig is a great idea.
This guy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Dickinson#Aviation
fronts a rock band, and in addition:
Don't be "just a pilot". The happiest and most successful people I know have some significant other activity in their lives, in addition to aviation. An example would be the Air Canada pilot in Toronto who is also an MD.
You "other gig" can be anything that you enjoy, and hopefully makes some coin, which sure will come in handy for the first few years of your career as a pilot. It might be carpentry, landscaping or guitar playing.
Being a pilot, after you've finished paying your dues, is a bit like being a fireman. Odds are you will end up with a substantial amount of free time, so having a side gig is a great idea.
This guy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Dickinson#Aviation
fronts a rock band, and in addition:
Dickinson learned to fly recreationally in Florida in the 1990s[30] and now holds an airline transport pilot's licence, regularly flying Boeing 757s in his role as captain[31][32] for the UK charter airline Astraeus, which also employs him as marketing director.[33] In mid-2006, Dickinson flew about 200 UK citizens home from Lebanon during the Israel/Hezbollah conflict.[34] On 12 February 2007, Dickinson was given permission to fly Rangers F.C. to Israel for their UEFA Cup game against Hapoel Tel Aviv. Dickinson asked if he could pilot this flight as soon as he found Astraeus had the contract for it. After the collapse of XL Airways UK in September 2008, he piloted an Iceland Express aeroplane and flew home 180 stranded holiday makers from Egypt, as well as a Boeing 757 with a group of British RAF pilots from Afghanistan. "A lot of them recognised him because they are Maiden fans, but he was there in his professional capacity as a pilot," says an RAF spokesman. For their 2008-2009 Somewhere Back in Time World Tour, Iron Maiden chartered a Boeing 757 and had it specially converted to carry equipment for their concerts. Dickinson himself piloted the plane, dubbed "Ed Force One". On 16 September 2010, Dickinson was appointed as Astraeus's marketing director.[35] Dickinson flew Liverpool F.C. from Liverpool John Lennon Airport to an away European tie with Napoli in Italy on the 19th of October 2010.[36]
Re: Ridiculously blunt salary question.
Year 1 30k
Year 2-4 Between 45-55k
I expect a drop in pay with the next advancement to the major airlines unfortunately.
Year 2-4 Between 45-55k
I expect a drop in pay with the next advancement to the major airlines unfortunately.
Re: Ridiculously blunt salary question.
I was told a long time ago that only 1% of pilots will see a 100k+/yr paycheque. Many of my friends are stuck left seat on 704 and 705 turboprops and have been in the industry 10+ years. Your present pay I can agree would be difficult to give that up as your first job flying would pay less than half that. Leaving a job you love with good pay for a job you think you might love and shitty pay is a big gamble. Good luck!
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Re: Ridiculously blunt salary question.
A very blunt Stats Canada review. All filers including those that choose to live "abroad" while claiming to be Canadian. Spooky, to say the least. Like what Neil Young said the other night..."what year is it?"
http://www.financialpost.com/personal-f ... story.html
http://www.financialpost.com/personal-f ... story.html
How do you go 205 kts TAS on 32 gal/hr without turbos!
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Re: Ridiculously blunt salary question.
Interesting read. I personally broke $85g's on year six of my aviation career. I am now on year 13 or so, and am still around $85 at my primary job, and usually pick up another $30-$55g's on winter gig's. I am a bush pilot, and a workaholic. I know there is much more to be made out there, but I just have no interest in the bigger iron.midwingcrisis wrote:A very blunt Stats Canada review. All filers including those that choose to live "abroad" while claiming to be Canadian. Spooky, to say the least. Like what Neil Young said the other night..."what year is it?"
http://www.financialpost.com/personal-f ... story.html
Good Luck in whatever path you choose.
Re: Ridiculously blunt salary question.
Year 6 going by T4, by working overseas on rotation, plus overseas tax credit, plus per diem (not income, but reduced the need to use income).
It's possible to do this in good time, but it generally takes knowing people and quite a bit of luck of being in the right place, at the right time. I'd love to take credit for making good money at a good job in good time, but unfortunately it had very little to do with me.
It's possible to do this in good time, but it generally takes knowing people and quite a bit of luck of being in the right place, at the right time. I'd love to take credit for making good money at a good job in good time, but unfortunately it had very little to do with me.
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Re: Ridiculously blunt salary question.
It was in Year 7, but I had to leave Canada to make that happen. No T4's here.
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Re: Ridiculously blunt salary question.
About year 7 for me. I'm still only on my third company. Started on the ramp for 18 months, then a King Air 200 for about 6 more ($0.04 per mile--no base pay ). Then went to 748 FO for about $40k and up from there to finish there just under $70k after about 5.5 yrs total.
Went an unconventional route but took a rise to about $75k at the next company and climbed there to hit $85 in just over a year. Finished there after 8 years around $110k but too much work. Now working for about the same, but a lot less work.
As you can see from the above posts, things can vary a lot depending on luck, your flexibility, your willingness to stick to a job, or move from it, etc.
Stick with the "one track" trying to get to Big Red and doing everything you can to avoid moving (and God forbid moving away from Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal, whatever) may pay off in about 7 years, or you may still be flying bags for $35k. More likely the latter in my experience. By the way, Big Red and its subsidiaries don't pay squat for the first several YEARS even if you get there.
You need to decide based on your own priorities in life. If you want (need) $85k fast, you need to be ready to chase it--possibly overseas. If you want (need) to not leave big city Canada, then you may be a while longer reaching 85.
Have fun with whatever you do. The only folks I really feel sorry for are the ones that hate the climb up the ladder so much that they basically waste their life while doing it because they are so miserable at not being at the top.
Went an unconventional route but took a rise to about $75k at the next company and climbed there to hit $85 in just over a year. Finished there after 8 years around $110k but too much work. Now working for about the same, but a lot less work.
As you can see from the above posts, things can vary a lot depending on luck, your flexibility, your willingness to stick to a job, or move from it, etc.
Stick with the "one track" trying to get to Big Red and doing everything you can to avoid moving (and God forbid moving away from Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal, whatever) may pay off in about 7 years, or you may still be flying bags for $35k. More likely the latter in my experience. By the way, Big Red and its subsidiaries don't pay squat for the first several YEARS even if you get there.
You need to decide based on your own priorities in life. If you want (need) $85k fast, you need to be ready to chase it--possibly overseas. If you want (need) to not leave big city Canada, then you may be a while longer reaching 85.
Have fun with whatever you do. The only folks I really feel sorry for are the ones that hate the climb up the ladder so much that they basically waste their life while doing it because they are so miserable at not being at the top.
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Re: Ridiculously blunt salary question.
About 9 years into it, only because I was able to pick up some winter flying after my summer contract was done. (Industry was doing well).
Mind you I fly smaller aircraft and focus more on home life rather than "chasing iron", so my answer may not be reflective of what others are willing to do for their career. (i.e. head overseas)
- Toeless.
Mind you I fly smaller aircraft and focus more on home life rather than "chasing iron", so my answer may not be reflective of what others are willing to do for their career. (i.e. head overseas)
- Toeless.
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Re: Ridiculously blunt salary question.
Year 1 $25K 703 FO
Year 2 $27K 703 FO
Year 3 started at $33K 703 FO upgraded to $50K 703 Capt.
Year 4 $55K 703 Capt
Thinking of making the jump to Jazz. Your post made me wonder. It seems that I'd have to be a 9 year captain before I get into the 80's. I think it's around 5 years + to become a captain there.
The industry is starting to move again so the first couple of years might be shortened a little. Once you reach a unionized company like Jazz, Calm Air, Air Canada or even WJ (association, not union), it's all about your seniority number and waiting your turn.
The blunt answer is going to be around 18 years.
Year 2 $27K 703 FO
Year 3 started at $33K 703 FO upgraded to $50K 703 Capt.
Year 4 $55K 703 Capt
Thinking of making the jump to Jazz. Your post made me wonder. It seems that I'd have to be a 9 year captain before I get into the 80's. I think it's around 5 years + to become a captain there.
The industry is starting to move again so the first couple of years might be shortened a little. Once you reach a unionized company like Jazz, Calm Air, Air Canada or even WJ (association, not union), it's all about your seniority number and waiting your turn.
The blunt answer is going to be around 18 years.
Re: Ridiculously blunt salary question.
13 years in, some serious bad luck, 3 industry downturns and 2 company bankruptcies later I'm at $55,000.
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Re: Ridiculously blunt salary question.
I finished my CPL in 2006... Got an instructor rating and made a cool $12k from flying that year.
2007 I grossed about $20k, instructing until September then taking a 703 FO job.
2008 I grossed about $30k
2009 I grossed about $45k, upgraded to captain mid way through the year
2010 I grossed about $65k
And if all goes according to plan, I will gross $80-85k in 2011.
No matter how much I make, it never seems to be enough!! (I blame my wife for spending it all, and then some!!)
2007 I grossed about $20k, instructing until September then taking a 703 FO job.
2008 I grossed about $30k
2009 I grossed about $45k, upgraded to captain mid way through the year
2010 I grossed about $65k
And if all goes according to plan, I will gross $80-85k in 2011.
No matter how much I make, it never seems to be enough!! (I blame my wife for spending it all, and then some!!)
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Re: Ridiculously blunt salary question.
I'd have to go through my old Tax forms to find out the exact amount that I was paid for my first year flying in 1997; suffice it to say that I was instructing for 1/2 the year, and the rest, I was earning $1800/mo - so nowhere close to $85k.
Fastforwarding to my current gig, it appears that I cracked $85k in 2009.
So, 12 years.
I'm sure that there are a lot of guys out there who don't get near that, or who give it up and go to something else, though..
Get into flying because you love to do it, not because of dreams of dubious riches...
Fastforwarding to my current gig, it appears that I cracked $85k in 2009.
So, 12 years.
I'm sure that there are a lot of guys out there who don't get near that, or who give it up and go to something else, though..
Get into flying because you love to do it, not because of dreams of dubious riches...
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Happiness is V1 at Thompson!
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Re: Ridiculously blunt salary question.
Yeah, if you want big $$$, go to Bay St or Wall St and become a stock broker or an investment banker.
A friend of mine is a retired (at a very young age) partner from Goldman Sachs. He has an ATPL and more airplanes that you would believe, including P-51D.
A friend of mine is a retired (at a very young age) partner from Goldman Sachs. He has an ATPL and more airplanes that you would believe, including P-51D.
Re: Ridiculously blunt salary question.
I'll take a slightly different tack here. Is it really all about money? In my world quality of life plays a huge part. It took me about 16yrs to finally break the $85,000 mark but looking back I'm not sure I would do things much differently.
I have a good friend who flies helicopters and after about 2 1/2 yrs of flying he is at the same pay level as I am. The difference is that he is gone for 6-8 weeks at a time, living in remote camps, flying his ass off, while I'm gone a max of 4 days and stay in good hotels in nice city's. (layovers on the beach in LA aren't too hard to take) Yes he may make a few dollars more than me but is it really worth it? Thats a personal decision and one only you can make..
I have a good friend who flies helicopters and after about 2 1/2 yrs of flying he is at the same pay level as I am. The difference is that he is gone for 6-8 weeks at a time, living in remote camps, flying his ass off, while I'm gone a max of 4 days and stay in good hotels in nice city's. (layovers on the beach in LA aren't too hard to take) Yes he may make a few dollars more than me but is it really worth it? Thats a personal decision and one only you can make..
Re: Ridiculously blunt salary question.
9 years from my first paid hour as a pilot and now over 6 figures living out west.