Shop rate for GA maintenance.

[Professor Piston]

How much is everyone paying per hour for their maintenance? I have a feeling we are getting hosed. Also, any recommendations for shops in southern Ontario?

[ME109]

Should be paying at least as much as you do for your car in which case $100-$120 is the going rate.

[Colonel Sanders]

Toronto is always more expensive than anywhere else, but ...

Shop rate for a heated, lighted hangar for a normal-sized light
single should be in the ballpark of $100/hr. So for a mythical
"no-snag" (uh huh) annual, two days should be around $1600
plus parts/supplies (oil, filter, solvents) plus HST. Call it $2k.

What are you paying?

[Bede]

Check out a guy named Vito at the YKF airport. He does good work.

By far the best AMO I have seen is Northern Airborne in YXL- great workmanship, very professional and insanely inexpensive.

[cdnpilot77]

By far the best AMO I have seen is Northern Airborne in YXL- great workmanship, very professional and insanely inexpensive.

+1
Jason is an extremely good person and the crew he had when I was up there was very efficient too

[Colonel Sanders]

insanely inexpensive

Often the most expensive is the cheapest. If it's a difficult
or tricky job, it can pay to have a high-priced expert do the
job right in 20 hrs, instead of paying someone less experienced
to try to learn how to do it in 40 hrs.

If your time is worthless, and/or the quality of the job is irrelevant,
disregard the above paragraph.

[KISS_MY_TCAS]

Like most things in life, if you have to ask, you can't afford it.
AMEs need to eat too. Are you happy with the work performed? Have you had an in-flight failure at the hands of your maintainer? Cheap owners are abundant, more so than cheap AMEs. My 7 year old truck gets billed at 110 per hour in the shop, if your 20+ year old plane gets fixed cheaper, consider it a bargain. Or sell it because you can't afford to maintain it. The death of GA in Canada is imminent, mostly at the hands of owners that want their liability laden machine worked on for cheaper than the warrantied new car they pulled up to the hangar in. Careful what you wish for.

[Professor Piston]

Thanks for all the replies. TCAS I am not trying to be cheap. I am willing to pay so long as the maintenance is done properly. Im in a partnership and feel the maintenance we are getting is sub par compared to the price. What about outside of Toronto, are shop rates better? What about London? does it get better as you move west? Im willing to take the time to fly the plane to someone I am going to be able to count on.

[KISS_MY_TCAS]

Prof, as it is somewhat region specific, have you asked other owners in the area for recommendations? There are some good recommends in this thread, but fellow local owners will usually have the best idea about local shops. Finding a good AMO is like finding a good family doctor, the best advertisement is customer word of mouth.

[ruddersup?]

Go North young man. YQA has an amazing shop up there called Air Muskoka where two brothers will look after you like no where else.

[Chemtech]

Try Tim's Terry Air in Centralia (CYCE). They are a good crew who do great work.

[summitx]

Figure out where the one who likes his tcas kissed and stay as far away as you can from that shop. Depends a bit on the complexity of the aircraft and use but shop around. Don't get sucked in to the bad attitude ame. Reason, common sense and good attitude = best value in maintenance.

[KISS_MY_TCAS]

summitx, I couldnt agree more! I have no interest in GA, been there, done that and stick to the commercial side of aviation with good reason. I did my time in GA, and for the most part moved on, it quite simply isn't worth the hassle. Some things in aviation never change, and to be quite honest private owners are subject to a stereotype nationwide, if not worldwide before they ever set foot in a shop. There are great AMEs and great shops out there, and 90% of private owners want a better, or should I say cheaper deal. I do look after a handful of private GA in my spare time, but it is on my terms to a select group of hand picked owners, and my phone always rings with the opportunity for more work that I can turn down at will. Aviation is a small world, and reputations tied to registrations knows no borders. Not to say the OP is in this category, he is asking for genuine input and has a list of recommends in this thread. The industry needs good GA shops, though I feel it is a dying sector of aviation in Canada. I have no problem recommending good AMOs/AMEs, the problem is referring good owners

[Professor Piston]

Thanks everyone for your replies. TCAS, you speak a sad truth whether people like it or not. I have made some calls and I am trying a new shop. I will let you know how it turns out.

Prof. P

[TeePeeCreeper]

I've got a guy with an AMO for you, reasonably priced, works his arse off, and has even come down to the float base to do some work during his off day when I really needed to get going...
The only catch... If he smells "cheap" or "prick" off you he'll refuse to work on your bird. I've actually seen him take a shit kicking from a customer who though the work done on this airplane cost to much... This AME said; "fine, I'll just charge you for the oil and parts" the customer said "Sounds good to me" my guy smiled and said "and don't you ever set foot in my f'ing hanger again!"
Good guy, has become a trusted friend, PM me for more details. (If your not a cheap "prick" that is!)
Regards,
TPC

[N2]

I for one am one owner who would gladly pay twice the current rate to the shop I use. I get great work and never have to second guess their decisions on what needs to be done or question my bills.

When I first bought my plane I got screwed to the wall by a very unscrupulous shop and yes I did a lot of bitching about them but with good reason. I am so thankful that I am now dealing with honest and hard working people who understand that not all of us are made of money but just poor working stiffs like the rest.

Anyone needs a referral to a great shop in the GTA pm me I would be more than happy to share.

[Bede]

A good AME is worth their weight in gold. Having said that, I find it somewhat irresponsible for some posters to advise that anyone not willing to pay $100+/hr should sell their aircraft. Let's say everyone followed that advice, one of two things would happen:
1) there would be a lot less work for AME's and many would get laid off or,
2) AMO's would realize they're not getting much business and lower rate to lure business back.

Prices always return to an equilibrium position. Instead, all of us (in any industry for that matter) should be convincing consumers of the value they are getting by retaining our services.

[crazy_aviator]

Equillibrium in the okanagan is about $80.00/Hr. anything less and you go in the hole any more (like $100.00/Hr.) and you can actually plan for the future ,,,,,,The cost of doing business in aviation is HIGH!

[azimuthaviation]

You cant go by the hourly rate, just the final bill. You can get hit a lot harder by the guy charging you 80 an hour than the guy charging 100.

Also be wary of how eager a shop is to take your aircraft. If he needs your business cause hes slow, hes not going to give you a deal. If he is busy with his core customers and doesnt need your business hes not going to give you a good deal either. Its a bell curve with pretty sharp drop offs at the end and the way to find the guys in the middle is to ask around.

Should be paying at least as much as you do for your car in which case $100-$120 is the going rate.

I own an American vehicle so my annual maintenance bill is about 5000 a year, plus theres recalls that the manufacturer absorbs the cost. I only take it to one dealership who charges 120 an hour plus HST and worth every penny. Im sure I could find a guy who has his "know hows" and will do it in his back yard for half the hourly rate and no HST. Yet the dealership stays in business, wonder why that is?

Also when an AME charges his shop rate he charges that rate for everything. The auto dealership doesnt charge shop rate to change the oil and filter or change tires and rims, your AME will. An AME can hire an apprentice 15 an hour to do those tasks and charge the shop rate, pocket about 80 an hour, the auto dealer never makes 80 dollars on a billable hour. Theres a lot of room for an AME to make a very good living charging 90 an hour.

[KISS_MY_TCAS]

I own an American vehicle so my annual maintenance bill is about 5000 a year, plus theres recalls that the manufacturer absorbs the cost. I only take it to one dealership who charges 120 an hour plus HST and worth every penny. Im sure I could find a guy who has his "know hows" and will do it in his back yard for half the hourly rate and no HST. Yet the dealership stays in business, wonder why that is?

You just proved my point. Dealerships stay in business because they sell cars, and maintain them at the same rate a regular customer pays based on a flat rate system set out by the manufacturer. If you aren't paying because you are under warranty, the manufacturer is, the shop still gets paid. Based on this, they have a guaranteed income no matter what, which is how they stay in business, even shitty dealerships survive. Their book times also dictate that if the job is listed at 3 hours on the books out of warranty and takes the tech 45 minutes, you get billed 3 hours and the tech can leave work early without it affecting his days wage. ANY manufacturers dealership you take your vehicle to will bill the same amount for the same job, the only false impression you get from the dealer is how friendly and accomodating your service writer is. You don't fight it, because you CAN'T! I can count on one finger the number of factory warrantied aircraft I have looked after, where the maintenance was paid by the manufacturer. If everyone bought brand new planes every couple years, the same may ring true. Sometimes i wish AMOs would flat rate book times, owners could see it coming along with the outrageos diagnostic times dealerships bill. I beg you to find me a dealership that specializes in repairing 20-40 year old cars, and is any good at it. Especially at the dealerships hourly rate. GA aircraft have made minimal technical advancements over the past 50 years, most are LONG out of warranty, have been modified since original, and unlike vehicles are held to a minimum standard of maintenance. For shits and giggles, go buy a 78 mercury grand marquis, take it to a dealership and tell them you want it to run properly, safely, and get you through 1 year. Let me know what the bill is. Remember, a 78 is young in GA years, so I am going pretty easy on you. and before you say "no advancements in decades", remember the extremely high turnover rate in maintenance is only outdone by pilots divorce settlements.

Also when an AME charges his shop rate he charges that rate for everything. The auto dealership doesnt charge shop rate to change the oil and filter or change tires and rims, your AME will. An AME can hire an apprentice 15 an hour to do those tasks and charge the shop rate, pocket about 80 an hour, the auto dealer never makes 80 dollars on a billable hour. Theres a lot of room for an AME to make a very good living charging 90 an hour.

I find it funny you think journeymen or ASE certified auto techs change your oil at a dealership. Dealer trained general labour does, for a much lower wage.

Any work outside of owner or elementary maintenance needs to be certified by an AME by regulation, love it or hate it. Your statements prove ignorance to what happens in maintenance shops the world over. You want an AME to sign that your oil was changed, filter checked, and plugs cleaned, the AMO and AME carry the liability of conforming with the standards of airworthiness by signing the entry, that's where the money is. The pimply faced apprentice at the dealership troubleshooting your car through a techII plugged into your OBD port will get you billed the same rate as an ASE certified tech, but I bet you never dispute it.