Filling oxygen bottles in the Lower Mainland

[Aug]

As the topic says:

We have a 15 cubic foot SkyOx portable oxygen bottle and we are not having an easy time trying to find someone who can fill it. The FBO at CYXX can only fill airplane O₂systems.

We kinda need this for a flight next week and I don't want to send it to Linde or somewhere like that where we will see it in a month or so if we are lucky.

Where do you guys get your bottles filled? Are there any FBO's at CYVR or CZBB that can fill them?

Thanks!

[westcoastwonder]

Send me an PM.
There is a guy that goes to the Baron Bar & Griill at CYXX that works for Air Liquid. He is a pilot and I am sure he will help if he can

[Lurch]

I was in ZBB a few years ago and couldn't get oxygen, we ended up flying to YVR and got filled up at Million Air.

Lurch

[Louis]

Scuba shops that do Nitrox or Trimix fills might also be able to help you out as they work with ABO.

[midwingcrisis]

Aviation O2 has a lower moisture content than Medical O2 to prevent ice forming at high altitude/low temperatures. Otherwise they are the same basic product, Aviation O2 is more expensive and will cause more dehydration than medical O2. Remember, you have to breath whatever is in the tank. If it is a cost issue....go to a welding shop.

[Mr Ed]

Sigh, No, aviation o2 is dry but so is medical but medical has the moisture added bedside.
All o2 these days comes from the same source - and is available in bottles from your not so friendly welding shop supply house. Tell them its for welding chairs or whatever and rent a bottle and do your own fill ups for $5 - each. My portable tank runs about 15 hours solo and have never paid to fill up o2 - always do it myself.

To add insult to injury, welding requires significantly better purity than ABO. So there...

[Beefitarian]

To add insult to injury, welding requires significantly better purity than ABO. So there...

It's true. To your lungs certain dirt is just added minerals. To the part you're welding it could ruin it by doping the molecular structure and changing the metallurgy.

Way back some drag racing buddies told me they got a deal on medical grade nitrous oxide, it clogged their filters because of the contaminants.

[Aug]

I was in ZBB a few years ago and couldn't get oxygen, we ended up flying to YVR and got filled up at Million Air.

Lurch

Yeah, I was in a real pinch last week so I went to Million Air... they are named that for a reason!

The folks there were very accommodating and freindly and basically filled my bottle on the spot, just asking for 20 minutes more to let it cool so that they could top it off...

The problem was that they charged me 150 freaking dollars plus tax for a 15 cubic foot bottle!!!! Holy Crap!

I won't do that again. I will make sure to plan ahead more. Buyer beware! I learned my lesson!

Gonna try Air Liquide or something next time. Maxcraft tell me that KMS tools can do it too.... I'm gonna look into that.

[human garbage]

Sigh, No, aviation o2 is dry but so is medical but medical has the moisture added bedside.
All o2 these days comes from the same source - and is available in bottles from your not so friendly welding shop supply house. Tell them its for welding chairs or whatever and rent a bottle and do your own fill ups for $5 - each. My portable tank runs about 15 hours solo and have never paid to fill up o2 - always do it myself.

To add insult to injury, welding requires significantly better purity than ABO. So there...

QFT. The guys at Liquide tell me that regardless of what type, it is all filled from the same source. Medical tanks require a prescription and are vacuumed prior to filling apparently.

I've got a transfill hose for mine. I already have O2 for the welding torch, so I just fill off that. As Ed said it is super cheap that way. You would pay for the hose in a fill at the price you paid. If you aren't down with the effort, then just go see the guys at Air Liquide next time.

FWIW I've found the best way to get O2 for cheap on the road is to show up at an small airline hanger with beers in hand. Works every time. AMEs like beer as much as pilots apparently...

[Aug]

I've got a transfill hose for mine. I already have O2 for the welding torch, so I just fill off that. As Ed said it is super cheap that way. You would pay for the hose in a fill at the price you paid. If you aren't down with the effort, then just go see the guys at Air Liquide next time.

Is this a standard transfill hose? Where can I get one and is there an actual descripton or catalog number that you know of?

[AEROBAT]

Aircraft Spruce sells the kit for filling up from regular welding O2 bottles.

[rubberboot]

Aviall Cataloge, Pg 1489
P/N 5020-01
Filler Coupling
you can also go to the AVOX website.

A word of caution regarding Oxygen - its pretty dangerous stuff. Its your call, but the reason Million Air charged so much, is because they trained their people to carry out the task safely. Please see pictures.

If you can find spec AIR 1059C, it has the Transfill requirements.
Odds are you would be ok doing it yourself, but....

[Beefitarian]

The missing tank probably burst (exploded) from too much pressure, that could have been multiplied by less pressure on the outside of the tank with increased altitude. Also the middle one second to our right that is still there, apears to have a bulge at the bottom. Scary, I would think you could not get that much pressure into an aircraft tank at home.

The scuba guy's problem had nothing to do with how the tank was filled or by who. He had a fire, Oxygen does not burn. It makes other things (fuel) burn. That's why if you have a camp fire that is not burning well you fan it. More air adds more oxygen to help the wood burn better. The oxygen was somehow released from the bottle near an existing flame which then increased in intensity due to the oxygen.

Lacking details in the story my guess... It may have been heated causing the pressure to increased until it burst and they reported it as exploding.

[rubberboot]

The missing tank probably burst (exploded) from too much pressure, that could have been multiplied by less pressure on the outside of the tank with increased altitude. Also the middle one second to our right that is still there, apears to have a bulge at the bottom. Scary, I would think you could not get that much pressure into an aircraft tank at home.

The scuba guy's problem had nothing to do with how the tank was filled or by who. He had a fire, Oxygen does not burn. It makes other things (fuel) burn.

Well, these tanks hold about 1850psi (nominal). The pic is a 747. I have an external pic of it, but chose not to post it due to the name on the side of the aircraft (liability). The damage is impressive. This can also happen filling too quick. Cylinder heats up and boom.

You are right with the scuba tank. I was most likely not during filling. I'm thinking it was some grease or other dirty material that got in the way of the Oxygen when he cracked open the regulator. The intent was to show that Oxygen is dangerous. While it may not "burn", it can cause spontaneous combustion of oil and other organic materials may occur in the presence of oxygen- rich environments, particularly when heat is also involved.

The only reason I am posting, is because i am sensing cavalier attitudes in the handling this stuff when I read the replies to the OP. I am currently looking into oygen handling/ransfilling of cylinders for work. O2 is scary sh!t. We take the handling of O2 too lightly. This may be urban legend stuff, but i have been told that a female pilot wearing make-up (ie lipstick) can be seriously burned if they have to use 100% O2 (not diluter setting on selector panel), due to the wax/petrolium in the lipstick. Don't know if it is true or not, but I won't use a Chapstick when I jumpseat because of it...

Boeing takes this seriously enough that it is deemed an "off aircraft task", and their AMM's do not list servicing instructions to transfill the bottle (they don't want the liability). If the Aircraft still has a functioning external servicing port, then the cylinder can be filled in situ (reference picture of missing bottle..)

I'm climbing off the cross now. To the O.P., I'm not saying don't fill it yourself, but please for your own safety, read up on it first. I would hate to be reading up on what happened in the 'incidents and accidents' forum here in the AVCANADA Forums.

respectfully,
r/b

[Beefitarian]

Yeah, good call.

I can't imagine that bottle bursting, it must have been like a grenade, it is typically very high pressure even if it's not at 1850 psi. A tire at 120 psi is really violent and that's only rubber at less than 10% of the pressure. Lift a welding oxygen bottle, there's a reason they are so heavy, thick walled steel so they can bang around the back of a pick up truck. The units in an aircraft would be much lighter.

[Aug]

I'm climbing off the cross now. To the O.P., I'm not saying don't fill it yourself, but please for your own safety, read up on it first. I would hate to be reading up on what happened in the 'incidents and accidents' forum here in the AVCANADA Forums.

Fair enough. I had some gas cylinder handling training, oh, 20 years ago and know some of the rules, but I'm in no way educated.

The point I was making is that there are lots of people filling their own tanks, and I wanted to know how I could do it a little cheaper than $165/fill for a small O₂bottle and if there were any FBO's or other qualified welding shops or gas supply companies who can do it. I don't fly enough to justfy transfilling from a couple of rented O₂cylinders, I just want to know what everyone else does.

[Beefitarian]

Quick question for the trans fill people can the line attach to a guage? You would know how much pressure you are dealing with then.

It has been a while but I seem to recall setting the acetylene pressure to 5-7 psi when torch welding.

[Mr Ed]

Pure o2 can be dangerous. High pressure O2 can actually get the metal valve assembly to burn. What happens is someone doesn't keep the valve assembly clean and then does a transfer by cranking open the valve quickly. The high pressure rush of o2 can grab dirt and slam it against bits of steel in fittings with a lot of force - the ignition point of steel on o2 is around 600 degrees (IIRC) and once it starts it goes really fast.

Keep everything CLEAN, no oils of any kind, and open valves SLOWLY. Use approved or designed for transfer fittings which are brass. I would not use scuba gear as its a different application. I do the transfers outside once hooked up.

Pretty much everything u need to know is here...http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182079-1.html

[AEROBAT]

The ignition point of steel is a lot more than 600 degrees, oil and grease is what catches on fire in a pure O2 atmosphere, not steel.

[Mr Ed]

Maybe at 1 atmosphere but not high pressure o2.

From GCA: Per G-4.4, para 4.2.5.3, "Materials that are found to be flammable within the very high pressure range [which this falls into] should be subject to oxygen gas velocity limitations as indicated in 4.4. Thickness limitations, where applicable, must be observed." Stainless steel is most definately flammable in this pressure range. In fact, Appendix D of G-4.4 lists austenitic stainless steels as being flammable above 290 psig at any thickness.

Thats why the scuba gear caught fire. Air (80% nitrogen) does not need safe materials such as Brass Alloys or Copper. An aside, thats why Yellowknife got its name - brass knife to work blasting materials.

Play safe folks.