RCAF History Forum

[Beefitarian]

More World War I stuff. I want to read about Camels and Nieuports.

[Old Dog Flying]

OK Beef: This Camel was flown by a famous Canadian who saved another famous Canadian during a low level fight over France...he is connected to the Red Baron...Who is he?

[YYZSaabGuy]

OK Beef: This Camel was flown by a famous Canadian who saved another famous Canadian during a low level fight over France...he is connected to the Red Baron...Who is he?

That would be Captain Roy Brown, Barney, bailing out Wop May's ass by going after Baron Manfred von Richtofen (although a number of Australians took and would continue to take issue with that claim).

[Old Dog Flying]

Beef: This Nieuport 17 was flown by another very famous Canadian who destroyed 72 enemy aircraft. He has 2 airports named after him. Who is he>

[Tom H]

OK Beef: This Camel was flown by a famous Canadian who saved another famous Canadian during a low level fight over France...he is connected to the Red Baron...Who is he?

That would be Captain Roy Brown, Barney, bailing out Wop May's ass by going after Baron Manfred von Richtofen (although a number of Australians took and would continue to take issue with that claim).

Ya know

I remember reading articles from the day (from archives I'm not that old lol) that many had issue with an unknown "Colonial" have downed Von Richtofen.

Then there is the whole Aussie thing.

Far as I am concerned...the Royal Air Force credited Brown with the downing and until the RAF changes their records it's Brown.

In my highly biased personal opinion

Tom

[Tom H]

The Neuiport...I'm betting Bishop IIRC

Tom

[Beefitarian]

Roy Brown was a pretty humble man. He was actually fine with the Aussies taking credit for the kill. It's really an unsolved mystery as far as I know.

[Old Dog Flying]

Tom: You and the Saabguy are both correct. Both models are 1:48 scale and very tiny. I have another Camel that is unfinished that was flown by another very famous CDN pilot who, although severely wounded continued fighting a very large gaggle of Huns and destroyed 6 aircraft in the fight.

He later died in a flying demonstration after the Great War.

Barney

[shitdisturber]

Tom: You and the Saabguy are both correct. Both models are 1:48 scale and very tiny. I have another Camel that is unfinished that was flown by another very famous CDN pilot who, although severely wounded continued fighting a very large gaggle of Huns and destroyed 6 aircraft in the fight.

He later died in a flying demonstration after the Great War.

Barney

That would of course be Billy Barker from Dauphin Manitoba who died in a crash near Rockliffe. My late grandfather from the nearby town of Gilbert Plains knew him before the war.

[YYZSaabGuy]

Tom: You and the Saabguy are both correct. Both models are 1:48 scale and very tiny. I have another Camel that is unfinished that was flown by another very famous CDN pilot who, although severely wounded continued fighting a very large gaggle of Huns and destroyed 6 aircraft in the fight.

He later died in a flying demonstration after the Great War.

Barney

That would of course be Billy Barker from Dauphin Manitoba who died in a crash near Rockliffe. My late grandfather from the nearby town of Gilbert Plains knew him before the war.

It would indeed be William G. Barker, VC. A helluva brave combat pilot and it's always been a mystery to me why memories of his contribution have dimmed so much since his death in a Rocklcliffe flying accident in 1930.

The combat action which earned him his VC pitted him solo against sixty - sixty - enemy aircraft. Here is the citation from the award of his Victoria Cross: ""On the morning of the 27 October 1918, this officer observed an enemy two-seater over the Foret de Mormal. He attacked this machine and after a short burst it broke up in the air. At the same time a Fokker biplane attacked him, and he was wounded in the right thigh, but managed, despite this, to shoot down the enemy aeroplane in flames. He then found himself in the middle of a large formation of Fokkers who attacked him from all directions, and was again severely wounded in the left thigh, but succeeded in driving down two of the enemy in a spin. He lost consciousness after that, and his machine fell out of control. On recovery, he found himself being again attacked heavily by a large formation, and singling out one machine he deliberately charged and drove it down in flames. During this fight his left elbow was shattered and he again fainted, and on regaining consciousness he found himself still being attacked, but notwithstanding that he was now severely wounded in both legs and his left arm shattered, he dived on the nearest machine and shot it down in flames. Being greatly exhausted, he dived out of the fight to regain our lines, but was met by another formation, which attacked and endeavored to cut him off, but after a hard fight he succeeded in breaking up this formation and reached our lines, where he crashed on landing. This combat, in which Major Barker destroyed four enemy machines (three of them in flames), brought his total successes to fifty enemy machines destroyed, and is a notable example of the exceptional bravery and disregard of danger which this very gallant officer has always displayed throughout his distinguished career." VC citation, London Gazette, 30 November 1918"

[Old Dog Flying]

Barker married into a very wealthy Toronto family and after his death he was buried in a crypt under his wife's family name. This was certainly no way to treat a national hero.

Barney

[YYZSaabGuy]

Agreed, Barney, that was odd, although likely a family decision.

Barker's funeral service, which attracted over 50,000 people (from a City of 800,000 residents!) and which was at that time the largest national state event in Toronto's history, combined a 2,000-man honour guard, the Chief of the General Staff and his senior officers, representatives from the federal, provincial and municipal governments, and six other Victoria Cross recipients together with an honour guard from the US Army and a flypast. It was a suitable commemoration for the most decorated serviceman in Commonwealth history.

As you probably know, a new memorial was unveiled in September 2011, incorporating a monument cast from the propeller of a Sopwith Snipe, the plane Barker flew on his most famous flight, embedded in and jutting upward from a granite block.

[Old Dog Flying]

I do not have Wayne Ralph's book on Barker but would you know which model of the Snipe, Early or Late, and the serial number of the aircraft?

There is a beautiful, highly detailed kit of the Snipe , 1:32 scale, which I would like to build if I can get photos and details of the aircraft.

Barney

[YYZSaabGuy]

I do not have Wayne Ralph's book on Barker but would you know which model of the Snipe, Early or Late, and the serial number of the aircraft?

There is a beautiful, highly detailed kit of the Snipe , 1:32 scale, which I would like to build if I can get photos and details of the aircraft.

Barney

I just ordered Ralph's book this morning - if those details are included, I'll certainly be happy to pass them along. That said, I wonder if Moose47's voluminous archives might include the information? He seems to have something on pretty much every aircraft the RCAF ever operated.

FWIW, there's a thread on another site http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/2001/ ... snipe.html which claims that Barker's aircraft was a Sopwith 7F1 Snipe - can't vouch for its accuracy, obviously. Another site http://cutandfold.info/cutandfoldforum/ ... opic=131.0 claims Barker's was S/N E8102, and I've found this same serial number reference on other sites. Finally, I just found out through some casual surfing that the fuselage of Barker's Snipe is held (and I believe on display) at the Canadian War Museum in Ottawa.

[beech 18]

April 13, 2013

This RCAF history forum is excellent.
I enjoy reading every posting.
Thanks

[Moose47]

G'day

In 1929, Sherman M. Fairchild, founder and owner of Fairchild Aircraft Limited in Farmingdale, New York, bought the majority of stocks of the Kreider-Reisner Aircraft Company of Hagerstown, Maryland. They continued the production of the C-6 as the Fairchild KR-21.

CF-AKR's construction number was 1021. It was owned by the Fairchild Aircraft Limited and given a Canadian civil aircraft registration on the 7th of March, 1920. It's Certificate of Registration Number was 822,

I have attached is a photo of the crumpled remains of Fairchild KR-21 CF-AKR, that was flown by Billy Barker during a demonstration at Rockcliffe Air Station on the 12th of March, 1930. At the time of the accident, Barker was the Sales Manager for Fairchild Aircraft Limited located 2.5 miles east of Longueuil,Quebec. While demonstrating the aircraft in front of a group R.C.A.F. top brass, Barker is though to have lost control of it and crashed onto the frozen Ottawa River. He died instantly.

Cheers...Chris

[Moose47]

G'day

Barker was flying Snipe s/n E8102 during the combat action for which he was awarded, "NOT WON" the Victoria Cross.

Cheers...Chris

[Old Dog Flying]

Saabguy amd Chris: Thanks for the info..now all I need is a photo for the markings and I'll order the kit. It will make a great addition to my Canadian Victoria Cross recipients.

[YYZSaabGuy]

G'day

Barker was flying Snipe s/n E8102 during the combat action for which he was awarded, "NOT WON" the Victoria Cross.

Cheers...Chris

For those with an interest, several excellent photos of the fuselage of Barker's Snipe at the Canadian War Museum can be found here http://www.wwi-models.org/Photos/Bri/So ... index.html.
Were I less IT-challenged, I would upload them for those with poor internet connections.

[Moose47]

G'day Barney

Perhaps this painting will help you out.

Too bad I can not say I did it )-:

Cheers...Chris