Have you ever landed gear up?

Sidebar · Post by **Sidebar** » Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:54 pm

I'm curious. Do people do this more than once?

Here's a previous poll from 2009: http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... 54&t=56532

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:22 pm

Yes, thousands of times.

On the water of course.

Flying amphibians makes one pay far more attention to gear position when landing.

JayVee · Post by **JayVee** » Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:42 pm

Just with one up.

slowstream · Post by **slowstream** » Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:46 pm

Only in my nightmares

Strega · Post by **Strega** » Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:53 pm

?????????WTF??

spaner · Post by **spaner** » Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:11 pm

As I've said before, and I'll say it again.
The most STUPID training SOP VIA ever...in the industry,
In the circuit? In a RG? Is to retract the gear. Proven time and again.

Why would you cycle the gear whilst in the circuit...pretty damn stupid...
I think the latest case was the 415 whilst training; Ice pilots...

Sure...In my opinion, of course...

Engine out, or TAS enroute...otherwise, "keep em down"... that's what they're for...

200hr Wonder · Post by **200hr Wonder** » Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:27 pm

On one of the first times I hopped into the sim doing my initial IFR training I gear up the sim, the instructor let me do it all the way to the ground, lesson learned! I think I owed him a case of beer for that one

Since that time I don't think I have ever once going "Oh shit Gear" it is always down at the right time on approach. Though I happens so I will try dang hard to not be that guy.

Chaxterium · Post by **Chaxterium** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:16 am

200hr Wonder wrote:On one of the first times I hopped into the sim doing my initial IFR training I gear up the sim, the instructor let me do it all the way to the ground, lesson learned! I think I owed him a case of beer for that one

Since that time I don't think I have ever once going "Oh shit Gear" it is always down at the right time on approach. Though I happens so I will try dang hard to not be that guy.

On one of my recurrent training sessions in the sim I damn near landed it gear up. If not for Bitching Betty I'm certain I would have.

In an SOP environment good SOPs should never let you get into that situation but when things go outside of the norm the reliance upon those SOPs can bite you and that it when you really have to pay attention. I tell you about en experience I had in the sim.

In our SOPs the landing gear come down with the first stage of flaps. Every time. No question. "Flap 15, gear down, before landing checks" is the call. This works great, except when you're in a situation where the first stage of flaps are already down, ie flap retraction failure after take-off. In my particular case in my training session this was the case. No problem. We just flew a VFR circuit and came into land. However since we knew the flaps were already down we never made the "flap 15, gear down" call. Thankfully Bitching Betty saved the day. It was a fantastic learning experience to say the least.

It's not my proudest moment for sure but I like to tell that story because I truly believe it's best to learn from the mistakes of others since we'll never live long enough to make them all ourselves.

Cheers,
Chax

Sidebar · Post by **Sidebar** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:35 am

2R · Post by 2R » Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:04 am

You can always tell when you have landed gear up.It takes full power to taxi to the fuel pumps.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:07 am

So, is your's the one vote for "More than twice"?

No I voted for never in the spirit of the question.

However in that this poll is a flight safety issue I thought I would point out there are more than one type of retractible gear airplanes and in the second group, the amphibious ones, an incorrect gear position kills far more people than landing on the runway with the gear up in a land plane.

Beefitarian · Post by **Beefitarian** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:41 am

2R wrote:You can always tell when you have landed gear up.It takes full power to taxi to the fuel pumps.

10

Sidebar · Post by **Sidebar** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:14 am

Cat Driver wrote:However in that this poll is a flight safety issue I thought I would point out there are more than one type of retractible gear airplanes and in the second group, the amphibious ones, an incorrect gear position kills far more people than landing on the runway with the gear up in a land plane.

Good point!

North Shore · Post by **North Shore** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:19 am

[Touch wood] Never landed gear up, but I damn near landed gear down on the water in an amphib

Scared me sh!tless at the time, and still gives me a shiver. IIRC, bitching betty saved me...

Diadem · Post by **Diadem** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:39 am

spaner wrote:As I've said before, and I'll say it again.
The most STUPID training SOP VIA ever...in the industry,
In the circuit? In a RG? Is to retract the gear. Proven time and again.

Why would you cycle the gear whilst in the circuit...pretty damn stupid...
I think the latest case was the 415 whilst training; Ice pilots...

Sure...In my opinion, of course...

Engine out, or TAS enroute...otherwise, "keep em down"... that's what they're for...

I'll play devil's advocate and say that since circuits are done for training, it makes sense to perform the flight as you would if it were a revenue flight. You wouldn't leave the gear down if you were levelling off at 10000 feet, so why would you do it at 1000 feet? You want to get proficient at handling the aircraft in all configurations, and it would be pointless to only train in one, regardless of the length of the flight. If you're going to leave the gear down in the circuit, why not leave the gear down all the time? Then it would be impossible to have a gear-up landing.

Liquid Charlie · Post by **Liquid Charlie** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:00 pm

Urban legend has it the Bobby Dale had them put a "false gear handle" on the dash of their 2 Otters and add it to the check list in preparation for the arrival of the -8 --

I have never left the gear down whilst training -- ever -- why would you depart from a check list --

Rookie50 · Post by **Rookie50** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:28 pm

Gear down, flaps 10 at the same time slows the AC nicely without any pitch change (usually downwind or at about 3 miles) Gumps check base to final, then short final visual gear check. 3 checks, and the gear is the first control moved so I sure expect not.

ea306 · Post by **ea306** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:44 pm

Cat Driver wrote:
So, is your's the one vote for "More than twice"?
No I voted for never in the spirit of the question.

However in that this poll is a flight safety issue I thought I would point out there are more than one type of retractible gear airplanes and in the second group, the amphibious ones, an incorrect gear position kills far more people than landing on the runway with the gear up in a land plane.

"Where am I landing?"
"Where is my gear?"

Too bad we never got to finish my float endorsement .....maybe one day!

SM16 · Post by **SM16** » Wed Jun 05, 2013 5:54 pm

spaner wrote:As I've said before, and I'll say it again.
The most STUPID training SOP VIA ever...in the industry,
In the circuit? In a RG? Is to retract the gear. Proven time and again.

Why would you cycle the gear whilst in the circuit...pretty damn stupid...
I think the latest case was the 415 whilst training; Ice pilots...

Sure...In my opinion, of course...

Engine out, or TAS enroute...otherwise, "keep em down"... that's what they're for...

I'd have to disagree with you. I've always retracted the gear regardless of circuit or not. If you Re training, it will remind you to retract the gear along with competing your Approach checks. If you train when they are alwYs down, what is the use of a training twin with retractable gear? Yes people forget, but don't forget there are warnings in place to catch our mistakes. Sampling saying don't put them down because we might forget is a horrible reason, we are training, we need to do things many times to get it in our brain.

TG · Post by TG » Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:06 pm

This one landed gear down