Stolen licence

[traveller123]

I was wondering that yesterday.

Story : You just landed and stop at the supermarket on the way home to buy some food, when you get back to your car, it just disappear. Your car was stolen and your licence was inside in your suitcase.

Can you still legally fly??

On the same way, can you fly with photocopies of your licence??

Logically, in 2013, if TC ask for your licence and you give them your licence number they can certainly double check it on a computer like police with your driver licence.

[Beefitarian]

My flying instructors said you can't. It's also a question on the license written test. I'm not positive I memorized them but I believe there were 11 or 12 pieces of paper required to legally fly the plane.

Crew license and medical were definitely one. Now is the penalty worth risking to get home if it happens while you're out of town? Maybe.

My second supportive anecdote for my position is when I applied for my blue book I had not yet found where the disaster restoration guys had put my PPL. I mentioned that to the nice TC lady. She urged me to get a temporary, in case I wanted to fly before the book would arrive. I assured her I would not and promised to come back for one if that situation changed.

If your license is stolen I believe a TC office can print a temporary one right away. Then again they can be difficult so I promise nothing.

[ea306]

Contact TC Licensing. They can email you a PDF copy of your license right away and send the original in the mail.

They did that for me last June.

[switchflicker]

This is a bit off topic

I've often thought of making copies of my provincial driver's licence and keep one in each vehicle of mine. I'm forever going for a quick car/truck trip sans wallet and licence. Anyone had the misfortune to put this idea to the test. (got caught)?

Sw

[Colonel Sanders]

CAR 401.03(1)(d):

no person shall act as a flight crew member or exercise the privileges of a flight crew permit, licence or rating unless ... the person can produce the permit, licence or rating, and the certificate, when exercising those privileges.

It does not say a copy.

[Bede]

Copies do suffice.

I have flown with copies of licences before. However it was because TC took more than 90 days (!) to process my IR/PPC renewal. I'm pretty sure they'll email you a copy if you need one temporarily.

[photofly]

It's a case of what the regulations say vs. what the regulator who's in charge of enforcing those regulations says.

If you contact TC, explain the situation and they send you a photocopy or a printout or some other piece of paper - or even just an email to say "go ahead, fly" - then the bottom line - which will never be reached - is that in any kind of enforcement action you have the defence of "officially induced error".

Per TP13794E:

"The defence of officially induced error is available where an alleged offender has reasonably relied
upon the erroneous legal opinion or advice of an official who is responsible for the administration or
enforcement of the particular law. It must be proved, on a balance of probabilities, that the alleged
offender relied on the erroneous legal opinion or advice of the official and that this reliance was
reasonable. The rationale will depend on several factors, including the efforts made by the alleged
offender to ascertain the proper law, the complexity or obscurity of the law, the position of the official
and the clarity, definitiveness, and reasonableness of the advice given"

[G3]

About lost/stolen licenses.

It was twenty years ago when I was working for a now defunct airline. One of our Flight Engineers it was later discovered to have been working with a stolen/alter FE License. It was later discovered that he had stolen a co-workers AME's License at another airline, altered it and then ended up obtaining a Flight Engineers License based upon the stolen/altered AME's License. He was found out when he was arrested on an unrelated charge.

Moral of the story, protect your paperwork.

G3

[digits_]

CAR 401.03(1)(d):

no person shall act as a flight crew member or exercise the privileges of a flight crew permit, licence or rating unless ... the person can produce the permit, licence or rating, and the certificate, when exercising those privileges.

It does not say a copy.

So if you really want to start nitpicking, "they" can only fine you if they ask for your license while you are at the controls of your airplane with the engine running

[Colonel Sanders]

can only fine you if they ask for your license while you are at the controls of your airplane with the engine running

Couple of thoughts.

1) You don't need a pilot's licence to start an aircraft's
engine and taxi it about. AME's do that all the time.

2) They love to ramp check you immediately after
landing, before you have a chance to walk away from
the aircraft. They've got you by the short and curlies,
because there is no doubt that you have committed
the sin of aviation. Daylight was clearly between your
tires and the pavement.

A friend of mine was an FAA Inspector for 3 weeks. I
believe he holds the record. Years ago he landed a plane
- not his - to refuel and he knew it had problems.
Immediately after landing, guess who walked up to him?
He grabbed his crotch and yelled, "I got to pee!" and ran
past the Inspector, into the FBO. But he didn't go into
the washroom, he ran out the front door and down the
road as fast as he could on foot. As far as we know,
the aircraft is still sitting there in front of the FBO.

[makmoco]

How long does it take for TC to send you a new booklet? In the case of a missing/stolen booklet

[Cat Driver]

I was fuelling up my water bomber for another sortie on a fire one day when TC was ramp checking pilots at the airport we were flying out of for that fire.

They asked me for my pilot license and other stuff they wanted to see, well I did not have my license on me and told them I couldn't remember where I had put it.

They said they were going to write me up and I could not fly until I produced the license.

So I asked them if they thought the Government allowed me to fly as Captain on a heavy water bomber without me having a pilot license, anyhow it went down hill real fast and I said hang on a second and I will let you talk to the head of the fire control centre and ask them if they will pay my fine if I keep on flying on the fire I was on.

Anyhow it did not take long for the fire centre to get me back on the fire.

Sometimes these TC inspectors are a special kind of idiot.

[Shiny Side Up]

How long does it take for TC to send you a new booklet? In the case of a missing/stolen booklet

The current working time is 90 days. Before anyone gets up in arms, the FAA's working time is 120 days. The lesson here being that if you think something is bad, it can always be worse.

[flyer 1492]

Watched a "ramp check" a long time ago in YQR. The pilot and the Inspector knew each other quite well. The pilot had just arrived home and the inspector walked up to him and asked to see his license. The pilot had forgotten it home that morning, Quickly thinking the pilot asked to see the Inspectors credentials. The inspector replied, "We both know each other, just show me your licenses". The pilot replied, "I'll show you mine, if you show me yours". Turns out the Inspector had left his license back at the hotel. They both agreed to produce the documents the following morning.

The moral of the story is. Don't be afraid in asking to see their papers first.

[Cat Driver]

The pilot and the Inspector knew each other quite well. The pilot had just arrived home and the inspector walked up to him and asked to see his license.

The rational question one would ask about this is why would the inspector ask for that pilots license if he knew him well?

[flyer 1492]

The Inspector said "he was just doing his job". He probably thought it was going to be an easy check....

[Cat Driver]

Just doing his job?

Alright lets have a look at this claim.

If the pilot can not produce any or all of the required documents one should have when flying what actions should or could an inspector take?

[telex]

...

[5x5]

The current working time is 90 days.

This is true for new licence/rating applications, but the person will typically have temporary privileges signed off on their SPP or ADB so it's no big deal. A temporary replacement can be issued almost immediately if you go to a TC office or even over the phone it can be done and mailed/emailed in very short order. There is a fee for the temporary but I'm not sure what it is but seem to recall it's in the $50 range.

Telex - seriously?

[Cat Driver]

Telex - seriously?

That reaction is caused by having an inferiority complex and envy.