Temporary foreign pilots in 2013

[Indanao]

Federal Government just released preliminary plans for the changes to the Foreign Workers Program.
The Alberta spokesman for the labour federation said it is just more of the same rhetoric. And..it really is, just the same promise for more enforcement - with basically the same rules which have been there all along. Then they brought in an employer who says it would be a disaster to the Country to limit the allowing of foreign labour.

What did they do before, say five years ago, when there wasn't such program? They used to allow it only for live in nannies and caregivers. Now....they bring in Pilots ?

Change the government, everyone has a vote.




Edit: For Spelling to avoid the Spelling Police.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

A Calgary pilot writes to the Editor: thumbs up.

http://business.financialpost.com/2014/ ... tsourcing/

[timel]

-Several crop dusting companies saying that they don't have training aircraft

http://www.batairspray.com

BS....

I got 40 hours of paid training and worked 3 seasons as an agpilot, still they wanted me to contact http://www.batairspray.com and be trained by them ( I call it BS somehow).. For other jobs. Still ... Pretty sure they could have pilots checked by this company worst case scenario, or force them to... sure some CAN pilots would go through that process in order to get a job for a couple seasons.

For piston ops ... You can easly get yourselft trained on a citabria airplane with agnav equipment and than fly solo on a piston spray airplane. For the turbines one sure you could go for an upgrade, with some experience you got it or not and will never get it, just flying faster tailwheel.

[Keenflyer]

To be insured Ag you have to have done a recognised Ag rating, Batairspray are one of those who do them.

[Indanao]

So...do ALL Foreign Worker Pilots who have been imported take the training...or, are they exempt ??

[timel]

To be insured Ag you have to have done a recognised Ag rating, Batairspray are one of those who do them.

So...do ALL Foreign Worker Pilots who have been imported take the training...or, are they exempt ??

Recently they decided they all wanted to have pilots trained by batairspray. I personaly didn't want to go through that and felt it wasn't justified since I already had training and flew 3 seasons. Could have done some tuneup for sure if I was promised a job or found one . I know few chopper pilots doing a great job and they won't go through batairspray. The old folks with 3-4 crashes won't have to go through that too.

Now, I was paid hourly 90$/ hr on start, standby per day 180$ + per diems. Some are paid base salary + the amount they spray $/ha.

If I check the document, some propose to pay 50$ an hour or 1500$/ month and are saying they are too short before the season and can't find a pilot, it's a drop for sure, when you have a whole winter to recruit... Ask yourself some questions.

I mean, it's easy to put high specs to recruit and it's logical to have them for certain aircraft, but it seems to me that aerial applicator is a little world, and the old fellow keeping it to themself and not passing on the jobs. Sure there will be shortages at some point justifying TFW.

Indanao your question is very good, not sure at all they do

[Keenflyer]

Indanao, Australian pilots have an Australian Ag rating which is more involved and more hours than the Canadian training.

[Indanao]

Okie...are all TFWs Ag Pilots coming from there though. Equivalent qualifications may be acceptable, but doesn't justify the TFW program.

I guess what I'm wondering is do all TFW Pilots have equivalent qualifications to those required here for Canadians. AND, how do we - displaced Canadians - know that? ( When i crop sprayed there were no courses, and we got a flat 10cents/acre. Now, I'm not qualified without the course. At 64 the only course I'm still interested in having is intercourse. But, I know how to do that job.)

[snoopy]

I suspect the ag operator "requirement" for the course stems from being self-insured. As I recall most, if not all ag operators self-insure to save on rates? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Regardless of the course "requirement" or acceptable equivalents, that still doesn't excuse the fact that a farmer spraying his/her crops for the last 30 years is repeatedly getting away with the excuse that there is insufficient time to train someone for the upcoming season. The question of who pays for the training is a subject for another discussion, and immaterial to the TFW justification. Canadians are well qualified, able and available to do those jobs.

The fact is that many ag operators are exploiting the TFW gravy train, most with very weak excuses that are not being closely examined/audited by our government.

Cheers,
Kirsten B.

[timel]

I suspect the ag operator "requirement" for the course stems from being self-insured. As I recall most, if not all ag operators self-insure to save on rates? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Regardless of the course "requirement" or acceptable equivalents, that still doesn't excuse the fact that a farmer spraying his/her crops for the last 30 years is repeatedly getting away with the excuse that there is insufficient time to train someone for the upcoming season. The question of who pays for the training is a subject for another discussion, and immaterial to the TFW justification. Canadians are well qualified, able and available to do those jobs.

The fact is that many ag operators are exploiting the TFW gravy train, most with very weak excuses that are not being closely examined/audited by our government.

Cheers,
Kirsten B.

Where I was working they were insured though pilots were to have at least + 1000 hrs and tailwheel experience. We were given 40 hours training and we were paid while doing so . I was asked to do at least 2 seasons for the company cause training was expensive.

Some do selfinsure or just want to make sure they have the right guy to do the right job when the season starts or do not want to pay for any training and I think it is fair.

What is not correct is that companies get foreign crop duster pilots, some just saying they couldn't find any, and it's funny cause last year when I was looking at jobs to fill my summer, I couldn't find any, not getting much answers after my short pre-season. Now I know at that time some bosses where filling TFW forms to get some mates from the other continent with no necessary experience needed, I could have worked, even go to batairspray in order to get checked or tuned up if promised a job. At least tryed.

It's just not right, I was not going the other side of the country, pay a couple $$$$ not beeing sure I was getting anything at the end. Crop duster jobs are well hidden, and nobody answers. Anyways it's behind me now. Just seeing all this applications, the system is wrong. Know some Canadian fellows who would love taking the jobs and it's very good pilots able to do that. It's good money too for people doing seasonal work and why not work at Sunwing during the winter on a 737 when season is done. It would fit perfectly

There should be a clear website on internet where all companies requesting TFWP should automaticly advertise, and it should be easy for every pilots to check. They sure don't advertise on avcanada.

[BE20 Driver]

I'll try to post the document I put together so you can see more of the application information on these forms. Paints an interesting picture.

Some of the applications I did see mentioned specifically which websites they were advertising on. Not one was using AvCanada.

[snoopy]

The thing to remember is, that regardless of where the ads are posted, there is no requirement whatsoever for the company to respond to applicants, track applications or otherwise account for the recruiting process. In other words it is quite easy for them to ignore applicants and claim that there were no qualified, or trainable candidates.

How many of you have applied to one or more companies on the (partial) 2013 LMO list, met the qualifications and received zero response? I'm sure many of us can cite more than one example.

It will be interesting to go through the 2012 list.

Cheers,
Kirsten B.

[Diadem]

The thing to remember is, that regardless of where the ads are posted, there is no requirement whatsoever for the company to respond to applicants, track applications or otherwise account for the recruiting process. In other words it is quite easy for them to ignore applicants and claim that there were no qualified, or trainable candidates.

How many of you have applied to one or more companies on the (partial) 2013 LMO list, met the qualifications and received zero response? I'm sure many of us can cite more than one example.

It will be interesting to go through the 2012 list.

Cheers,
Kirsten B.

Perhaps all TFW applications should be accompanied by an advertisement for the job opening on a government-run website, and all responses from potential Canadian employees should go through said website. It would be pretty hard to argue that no one had applied when the government could pull up the records of all the responses, and it would be easy to check the resumes to see if anyone met the posted qualifications. Sunwing et al would have a hell of a time trying to justify bringing in 737 type rated pilots from overseas if every 737-rated pilot in Canada applied for those positions, even if they never intended to take the job.

[nacho]

Please remember that there is not such a thing as and Ag rating in our system, all one needs is a commercial license. And of course training so one can do a good job for the farmer, not bend metal and survive in the process.
The training at certain facilities is mandatory for companies that have the Insurance through the CAIR program.(or it was years back)
For a few years now insurance companies have come back to offer operators affordable insurance without such requirements.
Lots of Aussies and Kiwis coming to spray in Canada.
Not that easy for Canadians to go spray over there.
Lots of young guys pay a fortune for the Ag courses only to have the jobs taken by foreigners.
I have to agree that there is something wrong with the picture.

[Keenflyer]

Nacho, a lot of Canadians go to Australia both for Ag work and fire work, fixed wing and chopper. It is a very similar process for both countries.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Nacho, a lot of Canadians go to Australia both for Ag work and fire work, fixed wing and chopper. It is a very similar process for both countries.

Several people have made such insinuations but can we have proof, details, numbers, statistics etc ? Just vague claims and insinuations just wont cut it.

You claim that Canadian Pilots go seasonally to Australia to work as pilots for Australian operators ?

[nacho]

I know only of one guy that tried other than me.
I was told there that license conversion no problem, work permit a different story.
So I ended going to South America cause I have dual citizenship. 15 years and not sure when I will quit going yet.
The other guy I can't say.

I see how operators here got themselves in a predicament, the requirements they set through their own insurance program became too high for a kid out of school with only small piston time.
I don't hire any pilots here, but I see that if I ever do I will have to train the guy myself.

[timel]

It would be interresting to have the 2012 TFW application list. What is definitly clear, AG jobs are very poorly advertised and difficult to find. The only answer I got was from a contact a guy I worked with had, and the work position was filled for c188.



Interresting to read that ad:
http://www.canadianaerialapplicators.co ... s/show/258. Looking for a pilot with airtractor experience and must be flying a robinson R44 ... P.314 of your document Gilles.


Got to admit not much ads... In there.
http://www.canadianaerialapplicators.com/classifieds


Target airspray never ever heard of them, googled their names and found an ad searching carefully! (G's doc p.336-337)
http://workdirectory.groomingtechnologi ... b_id=10201. Opens 15-04 closes 15-05 good luck finding that ad.

Ads they put don't even fit with what they write in the docs for tfw. Found an other one. It's obvious they don't work on making them very public or easy to find and unless you go name by name you won't find this ads. Never even knew those companies existed before knowing about that document. http://www.saskjobs.ca/jsp/joborder/det ... _id=560356

Some other the amount of hours are just sick requested. This is no airliner jobs, you don't fly 600 hrs in your summer. Makes it really not attractive for futur pilots. The job advsertising must certainly be reviewed.

[Keenflyer]

Nacho, a lot of Canadians go to Australia both for Ag work and fire work, fixed wing and chopper. It is a very similar process for both countries.

Several people have made such insinuations but can we have proof, details, numbers, statistics etc ? Just vague claims and insinuations just wont cut it.

You claim that Canadian Pilots go seasonally to Australia to work as pilots for Australian operators ?

I can't see hard numbers of foreign pilots working in Canada on this thread. How many are there? How much time do you have on 502 or 802 Air tractors Giles? Do you meet the requirements to be insured on a million dollar 502? Did you apply to any of the Ag jobs advertised? The Ag jobs were advertised in places where Ag pilots go to find work not the Vancouver Sun.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Keenflyer, on Oct 26 2013 I sent an Access to information request to ESDC to ask to see all applications that Canadian aircraft operators had made to import Temporary Foreign Worker pilots to Canada in the course of the year up to that date.

They sent me a huge PDF file that contained the names of over 70 Canadian Aircraft operators that had applied for TFW pilots. Some of these 70+ operators made several applications and several individual applications are for more than one pilot.
In 705 operators alone there were close to 200 TFW pilots.
I did not count the others but we can safely assume the number of TFW pilots in Canada in 2013 was in the several hundreds.

Now back to my original question. Do you specifically know of any Canadian pilots who go work seasonally in Australia or New Zealand as Temporary Foreign Workers ?

I am not certain that this is what you wrote in your last post, but you seem to infer that flying those Ag aircraft require some sort of skill not found with Canadian pilots and justifying that we import qualified TFW pilots while leaving Canadian pilots un-employed ?

http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... ra#p877781