Ottawa RIver Departure under the Bridge

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Colonel Sanders
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Re: Ottawa RIver Departure under the Bridge

Post by Colonel Sanders »

A few years back a 185 on floats actually hit the bridge just South of the Arnprior airport.

The people on the bridge didn't even notice and the bridge itself did not even require a paint touch-up.
"Give the Governor a Harrumph!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JN99jshaQbY


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Re: Ottawa RIver Departure under the Bridge

Post by Rockie »

linecrew wrote:Who knows...perhaps they are weary enough of their own stick and rudder skills that their perception of what is dangerous exceeds that of the others.
I knew this quote would come in handy some day....

"Truly superior pilots are those who use their superior judgment to avoid those situations where they might have to use their superior skills."
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Re: Ottawa RIver Departure under the Bridge

Post by Colonel Sanders »

I think you're arguing, Rockie, that you
should stay on the ground. I cannot find
fault with that logic.
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Re: Ottawa RIver Departure under the Bridge

Post by Rockie »

Your reading comprehension skills never disappoint Hedley..
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Re: Ottawa RIver Departure under the Bridge

Post by Colonel Sanders »

Yeah, I'm pretty stupid, compared to you Rockie.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrier_Routing_System
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Re: Ottawa RIver Departure under the Bridge

Post by Big Pistons Forever »

I think the lesson here is obvious. When ever you do something unusual, somebody will;

1) Take a video of it

2) Post the video on social media

3) Comment on your actions on Avcanada

It is a new world......

For the record my 02 cents are as follows

If the pilot deliberately manoeuvred his airplane so that he had to tskeoff by going under the bridge than I think he was foolish.
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Re: Ottawa RIver Departure under the Bridge

Post by Shiny Side Up »

But only foolish in the idea that someone is going to be unhappy about it and complain. Personally I'm a big proponent of the Colonel's one guideline to flying, but increasingly the list of things you shouldn't do only because they'll frighten the unwashed masses, won't understand, and be really unhappy about is getting longer by the day. Personally I'm starting to get tired of how its going and its time to start pushing back. To that end, I'd encourage a lot of people to take off under that bridge, so it ceases to become unusual, and one could make a solid argument that any reasonable and prudent pilot would do it.
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Re: Ottawa RIver Departure under the Bridge

Post by Colonel Sanders »

Unsurprisingly, I have had many discussions
with Transport. More than once, I have told
them:

"Just because it's unusual, doesn't make it
illegal or dangerous"

Image

The vast majority of pilots, will assume that
something unusual must be somehow
illegal. Or dangerous. Predictably, we can
see Rockie trying to shoehorn CAR 602.01
onto this one, ignoring the posts from many
other float pilots that this is routine, in less
sensitive and delicate parts of the country.

The way the regulations work, is that if it
is not specifically prohibited, it is therefore
permitted, modulo CAR 602.01, which is
sort of a prize for originality and creativity.
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Re: Ottawa RIver Departure under the Bridge

Post by Rockie »

The nice thing about regulations is that they keep people like Hedley in check. Without them there would be no restraint, and adrenalin junkies in the air, on the water and on the roads would be even more of a hazard than they already are.

Who gives a rat's ass if float pilots on here defend what this pilot did just because they do it in bumf**k nowhere? Do it around people and they will likely have something to say about it whether you think it's valid or not. Ignore them at your own foolish expense.
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Re: Ottawa RIver Departure under the Bridge

Post by Colonel Sanders »

Sorry I hurt your feelings, honey.

40 years of flying, and not one dented
airplane, which is the objective, in case
you hadn't noticed.
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Re: Ottawa RIver Departure under the Bridge

Post by North Shore »

Can you guys get a room, and hash out your differences in private, please?
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Re: Ottawa RIver Departure under the Bridge

Post by Big Pistons Forever »

Shiny Side Up wrote:But only foolish in the idea that someone is going to be unhappy about it and complain.
No it was foolish because as I understand the event he had the option to takeoff without passing under the bridge but manoeuvred so that he had to pass under the bridge. So if you have a choice

1) takeoff and then fly under a bridge, or

2) takeoff with a clear departure path,

And you choose choice 1 then I think you are being foolish. However if wind, traffic, and other departure path obstacles mean that in your judgement the best takeoff flight path would necessarily involve passing under a high bridge ( or much more commonly wires ) then that would be the correct course of action and you would FWIW get my support.

Pushing back against the man is IMO, not in itself a good enough reason to do something......
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Re: Ottawa RIver Departure under the Bridge

Post by AuxBatOn »

CS,

Unlike computer programming, the world isn't black and white. What is acceptable in parts of aviation is not in other. For example, for air displays, aerobatics, a head-on takeoff followed by an immelman is probably acceptable/within the bounds of normality. But, for a 704 operation it is not.

With experience in your field, you start developping judgement, just like you develop ethics when you grow up: you start having an idea of what is right and what is wrong, regardless of legalities. That is how you can decise whether or not what you are about to do is normal/acceptable. If it is not but is still legal, you better have a good reason, otherwise you bet that a 602.01 is in order.
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Re: Ottawa RIver Departure under the Bridge

Post by Colonel Sanders »

I will admit that I do not suffer fools
gladly, nor am I impeded by false
modesty, which I consider the refuge
of the incompetent.

This is a far worse sin, than any contravention
of the CARs.

See the final episode of Seinfeld, where
the entire cast is convicted of "criminal indifference".
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Re: Ottawa RIver Departure under the Bridge

Post by Prairie Chicken »

I fully expect TC are investigating. 602.01 seems likely. 602.13(1) is a possibility (no t/o within a built up area). The outcome will of course depend on what the investigation reveals, but on first blush it looks like a blatant violation of 602.01.

Assuming the a/c is marked as required, the RO will soon be receiving a letter requesting he provide the name & licence number of the pic.

The most disturbing aspect of this thread is how many of you see nothing wrong with it. If this was the action of a 'reasonable & prudent’ pilot … folks, we’re in a lot of trouble.
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Re: Ottawa RIver Departure under the Bridge

Post by Rockie »

Colonel Sanders wrote:40 years of flying, and not one dentedairplane, which is the objective, in caseyou hadn't noticed.
Do you invest in anything other than overpowered penis compensators Hedley? If you do you might remember reading this:

"The performance represented is historical; past performance is not a reliable indicator of future results"
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Re: Ottawa RIver Departure under the Bridge

Post by Cat Driver »

602.13(1) is a possibility (no t/o within a built up area).
I was under the impression that sea planes use the Ottawa river for landing and taking off.....not necessarily under that bridge though.

Does anyone here know if they use that water between the bridges?

I know in Vancouver we have been flying off the river for decades and that is a built up area.

This whole problem could have been avoided had the pilot stayed on the water for another eight seconds or taxied closer to the bridge before starting the take off.
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Re: Ottawa RIver Departure under the Bridge

Post by Colonel Sanders »

past performance is not a reliable indicator of future results
Really. I suppose you have never tried to
get any insurance for anything? You know,
on the form where they ask you for your
history of claims?

It's good to know that you know more about
this, than every actuary that has ever worked
at every insurance company.
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Re: Ottawa RIver Departure under the Bridge

Post by Prairie Chicken »

Cat, I don't know that territory which is why I said it was a possibility. That portion of the river (without the bridge) may be certified, or may have been determined not to be in a built-up area. Either way, the t/o/ or a landing wouldn't be contrary to 602.13. Certainly there are many parts of the country where ops from waterdromes are perfectly legit.
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Re: Ottawa RIver Departure under the Bridge

Post by Cat Driver »

First off Prairie Chicken I am not defending what that pilot did because with just a bit of effort he/ she could have avoided this whole shit storm.

In today's electronic world there is no privacy and someone is bound to record and post it on the internet, the news media will immediately blow everything out of proportion to the actual danger involved which will leave you hanging out to dry under 602.01 a place where I would never want to be because that CAR is a real catch all and open to interpretation based on who may want to see what.

As to the actual danger to life in that take off I don't see there was anymore or maybe even less than those people boating without flotation devices, how come the media missed that?
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