Ottawa RIver Departure under the Bridge

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Big Pistons Forever
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Re: Ottawa RIver Departure under the Bridge

Post by Big Pistons Forever »

I think the lesson here is obvious. When ever you do something unusual, somebody will;

1) Take a video of it

2) Post the video on social media

3) Comment on your actions on Avcanada

It is a new world......

For the record my 02 cents are as follows

If the pilot deliberately manoeuvred his airplane so that he had to tskeoff by going under the bridge than I think he was foolish.
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Shiny Side Up
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Re: Ottawa RIver Departure under the Bridge

Post by Shiny Side Up »

But only foolish in the idea that someone is going to be unhappy about it and complain. Personally I'm a big proponent of the Colonel's one guideline to flying, but increasingly the list of things you shouldn't do only because they'll frighten the unwashed masses, won't understand, and be really unhappy about is getting longer by the day. Personally I'm starting to get tired of how its going and its time to start pushing back. To that end, I'd encourage a lot of people to take off under that bridge, so it ceases to become unusual, and one could make a solid argument that any reasonable and prudent pilot would do it.
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Colonel Sanders
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Re: Ottawa RIver Departure under the Bridge

Post by Colonel Sanders »

Unsurprisingly, I have had many discussions
with Transport. More than once, I have told
them:

"Just because it's unusual, doesn't make it
illegal or dangerous"

Image

The vast majority of pilots, will assume that
something unusual must be somehow
illegal. Or dangerous. Predictably, we can
see Rockie trying to shoehorn CAR 602.01
onto this one, ignoring the posts from many
other float pilots that this is routine, in less
sensitive and delicate parts of the country.

The way the regulations work, is that if it
is not specifically prohibited, it is therefore
permitted, modulo CAR 602.01, which is
sort of a prize for originality and creativity.
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Re: Ottawa RIver Departure under the Bridge

Post by Rockie »

The nice thing about regulations is that they keep people like Hedley in check. Without them there would be no restraint, and adrenalin junkies in the air, on the water and on the roads would be even more of a hazard than they already are.

Who gives a rat's ass if float pilots on here defend what this pilot did just because they do it in bumf**k nowhere? Do it around people and they will likely have something to say about it whether you think it's valid or not. Ignore them at your own foolish expense.
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Colonel Sanders
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Re: Ottawa RIver Departure under the Bridge

Post by Colonel Sanders »

Sorry I hurt your feelings, honey.

40 years of flying, and not one dented
airplane, which is the objective, in case
you hadn't noticed.
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Re: Ottawa RIver Departure under the Bridge

Post by North Shore »

Can you guys get a room, and hash out your differences in private, please?
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Re: Ottawa RIver Departure under the Bridge

Post by Big Pistons Forever »

Shiny Side Up wrote:But only foolish in the idea that someone is going to be unhappy about it and complain.
No it was foolish because as I understand the event he had the option to takeoff without passing under the bridge but manoeuvred so that he had to pass under the bridge. So if you have a choice

1) takeoff and then fly under a bridge, or

2) takeoff with a clear departure path,

And you choose choice 1 then I think you are being foolish. However if wind, traffic, and other departure path obstacles mean that in your judgement the best takeoff flight path would necessarily involve passing under a high bridge ( or much more commonly wires ) then that would be the correct course of action and you would FWIW get my support.

Pushing back against the man is IMO, not in itself a good enough reason to do something......
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Re: Ottawa RIver Departure under the Bridge

Post by AuxBatOn »

CS,

Unlike computer programming, the world isn't black and white. What is acceptable in parts of aviation is not in other. For example, for air displays, aerobatics, a head-on takeoff followed by an immelman is probably acceptable/within the bounds of normality. But, for a 704 operation it is not.

With experience in your field, you start developping judgement, just like you develop ethics when you grow up: you start having an idea of what is right and what is wrong, regardless of legalities. That is how you can decise whether or not what you are about to do is normal/acceptable. If it is not but is still legal, you better have a good reason, otherwise you bet that a 602.01 is in order.
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Colonel Sanders
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Re: Ottawa RIver Departure under the Bridge

Post by Colonel Sanders »

I will admit that I do not suffer fools
gladly, nor am I impeded by false
modesty, which I consider the refuge
of the incompetent.

This is a far worse sin, than any contravention
of the CARs.

See the final episode of Seinfeld, where
the entire cast is convicted of "criminal indifference".
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Re: Ottawa RIver Departure under the Bridge

Post by Prairie Chicken »

I fully expect TC are investigating. 602.01 seems likely. 602.13(1) is a possibility (no t/o within a built up area). The outcome will of course depend on what the investigation reveals, but on first blush it looks like a blatant violation of 602.01.

Assuming the a/c is marked as required, the RO will soon be receiving a letter requesting he provide the name & licence number of the pic.

The most disturbing aspect of this thread is how many of you see nothing wrong with it. If this was the action of a 'reasonable & prudent’ pilot … folks, we’re in a lot of trouble.
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Re: Ottawa RIver Departure under the Bridge

Post by Rockie »

Colonel Sanders wrote:40 years of flying, and not one dentedairplane, which is the objective, in caseyou hadn't noticed.
Do you invest in anything other than overpowered penis compensators Hedley? If you do you might remember reading this:

"The performance represented is historical; past performance is not a reliable indicator of future results"
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Re: Ottawa RIver Departure under the Bridge

Post by Cat Driver »

602.13(1) is a possibility (no t/o within a built up area).
I was under the impression that sea planes use the Ottawa river for landing and taking off.....not necessarily under that bridge though.

Does anyone here know if they use that water between the bridges?

I know in Vancouver we have been flying off the river for decades and that is a built up area.

This whole problem could have been avoided had the pilot stayed on the water for another eight seconds or taxied closer to the bridge before starting the take off.
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Re: Ottawa RIver Departure under the Bridge

Post by Colonel Sanders »

past performance is not a reliable indicator of future results
Really. I suppose you have never tried to
get any insurance for anything? You know,
on the form where they ask you for your
history of claims?

It's good to know that you know more about
this, than every actuary that has ever worked
at every insurance company.
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Re: Ottawa RIver Departure under the Bridge

Post by Prairie Chicken »

Cat, I don't know that territory which is why I said it was a possibility. That portion of the river (without the bridge) may be certified, or may have been determined not to be in a built-up area. Either way, the t/o/ or a landing wouldn't be contrary to 602.13. Certainly there are many parts of the country where ops from waterdromes are perfectly legit.
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Re: Ottawa RIver Departure under the Bridge

Post by Cat Driver »

First off Prairie Chicken I am not defending what that pilot did because with just a bit of effort he/ she could have avoided this whole shit storm.

In today's electronic world there is no privacy and someone is bound to record and post it on the internet, the news media will immediately blow everything out of proportion to the actual danger involved which will leave you hanging out to dry under 602.01 a place where I would never want to be because that CAR is a real catch all and open to interpretation based on who may want to see what.

As to the actual danger to life in that take off I don't see there was anymore or maybe even less than those people boating without flotation devices, how come the media missed that?
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Re: Ottawa RIver Departure under the Bridge

Post by Prairie Chicken »

I've missed you too Cat. :smt008
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Re: Ottawa RIver Departure under the Bridge

Post by Cat Driver »

I've missed you too Cat. :smt008
Your not focusing on all those dick measuring posts BPF got going about me are you? :D :mrgreen: :smt040
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Re: Ottawa RIver Departure under the Bridge

Post by Prairie Chicken »

Nah, but I'm sure BPF wouldn't lie on this here forum.
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Re: Ottawa RIver Departure under the Bridge

Post by Cat Driver »

:cry: :cry: :cry:
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Re: Ottawa RIver Departure under the Bridge

Post by cgzro »

As ive said before there are 3-4 float planes that are docked a little to the east of that bridge and which use the river east. There was previously a few docked west of the bridge but ive not seen any lately.

I grew up in victoria and the float plane operations were 'interesting' to say the least so this does not seen that unusual to me but you could not pick a worse crowd to scare than the rowing club.
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Re: Ottawa RIver Departure under the Bridge

Post by Shiny Side Up »

Big Pistons Forever wrote:
Pushing back against the man is IMO, not in itself a good enough reason to do something......
I'd disagree, sometimes its the best reason to do something.
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Re: Ottawa RIver Departure under the Bridge

Post by andyl »

I'm still stuck on this clubs had seaplane neighbours for - what 50+ years?

They've been docked right beside the club for decades... And that particular takeoff was common in my recollection.

Suddenly video and complaints to media? Can we say nimbyism?
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Re: Ottawa RIver Departure under the Bridge

Post by Sasquash »

Andyl;

nimbyism is appropriate, but only if you're a neighbor.
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Re: Ottawa RIver Departure under the Bridge

Post by AuxBatOn »

Shiny Side Up wrote:
Big Pistons Forever wrote:
Pushing back against the man is IMO, not in itself a good enough reason to do something......
I'd disagree, sometimes its the best reason to do something.
So, you are an instructor and you advocate doing silly things that are legal for the sake of pissing people off? Interesting...

If you were new to aviation, I could understand such immaturity but you are not...
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Re: Ottawa RIver Departure under the Bridge

Post by Shiny Side Up »

AuxBatOn wrote:
Shiny Side Up wrote:
Big Pistons Forever wrote:
Pushing back against the man is IMO, not in itself a good enough reason to do something......
I'd disagree, sometimes its the best reason to do something.
So, you are an instructor and you advocate doing silly things that are legal for the sake of pissing people off? Interesting...

If you were new to aviation, I could understand such immaturity but you are not...
No, lets be clear. I advocate doing normal things that are perfectly legal for the point of enabling one to continue doing normal things. If they make some people unhappy, that's their problem. Its time to start making those people back down.

Lets be really clear. As an instructor, and as an airport manager, I'm continually bombarded by requests to stop what we're doing. These things seem unusual, some of them seem scary, but that's to the uneducated public who know nothing about the business we're in. For example, recently I've had complaints that flying at 1000' agl is now, unusual, not necessary, and scares some people and makes them unhappy. So has just doing landings at my home aerodrome. So I would say that some aviators need to step up and stop backing down and rolling over when it comes to them impacting [/b] us.

So yes, sometimes we need to push back. They don't like the airplanes, they move, not us. Don't give the pricks the satisfaction of getting their way because their illusion of "safety" in the world doesn't line up all the time.

I know its all Canadian to rush to apologise and wring our hands when someone's feelings are hurt or feels uncomfortable, but not for this. If people think that this is dangerous and needs to come to a stop, they have no idea what passes for normal everywhere else in the world, and in Candada.
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