CADORS at YYZ
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- FenderManDan
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CADORS at YYZ
Question for YYZ crew. What is going on with those slow departures lately. I am seeing a bunch of CADORS with the same overshoot theme due to the slow departure occupying the runway?
Thanks
Thanks
Re: CADORS at YYZ
Without seeing the cadors, is it crews not communicating the need for an engine clearing procedure prior to departure?
Re: CADORS at YYZ
30 second engine cleaning and an efficient mixed mode operation don't go together. Some crews, if asked, are willing to do the engine cleaning prior to lining up and those that do it on the runway will do so while the arrival is rolling out in front and cause minimal issues.
There are still a few who won't commence the run-up unless they have been cleared for take off. I can understand this if there is any possibility of slipping during the run-up, but on a runway that is in good condition, it just slows everything down and causes overshoots. Either way we need to know well before you line up so we can plan ahead.
Several of the overshoots during this week's snow event were on a landing only runway and caused by aircraft not exiting the runway in time. Poor runway conditions, insufficient arrival spacing for those conditions brought about by pressure of too high a flow rate and crews braking hard and almost stopping before reaching an exit, especially on 15L were also contributing factors.
There are still a few who won't commence the run-up unless they have been cleared for take off. I can understand this if there is any possibility of slipping during the run-up, but on a runway that is in good condition, it just slows everything down and causes overshoots. Either way we need to know well before you line up so we can plan ahead.
Several of the overshoots during this week's snow event were on a landing only runway and caused by aircraft not exiting the runway in time. Poor runway conditions, insufficient arrival spacing for those conditions brought about by pressure of too high a flow rate and crews braking hard and almost stopping before reaching an exit, especially on 15L were also contributing factors.
Re: CADORS at YYZ
[quote="cossack"][/quote]
Hi Cossack, not sure which airline requires a takeoff clearance prior to an engine run, it may be because one of their crews had the power up and without thinking about it commenced a take off roll.. I could very easily see how this could happen on a dark night or early morning.
As for breaking too hard/entering the taxi ways "too" slowly I think one thing to keep in mind is typical in YYZ (and elsewhere) the most slippery spots for us are usually right around the taxi ways. I'd imagine this is due to the slower speeds, heat can melt snow and turn it into ice. A 65 ton jet does have trouble with traction and unfortunately at lower speeds the reverse thrust is not ideal as it does not supply us with as much reverse and it can cause damage spewing snow/crap into the engines. Because of this brakes are our only option. This means when taking the turns we have to make sure we are at a speed that we can "stop" right now..
Hi Cossack, not sure which airline requires a takeoff clearance prior to an engine run, it may be because one of their crews had the power up and without thinking about it commenced a take off roll.. I could very easily see how this could happen on a dark night or early morning.
As for breaking too hard/entering the taxi ways "too" slowly I think one thing to keep in mind is typical in YYZ (and elsewhere) the most slippery spots for us are usually right around the taxi ways. I'd imagine this is due to the slower speeds, heat can melt snow and turn it into ice. A 65 ton jet does have trouble with traction and unfortunately at lower speeds the reverse thrust is not ideal as it does not supply us with as much reverse and it can cause damage spewing snow/crap into the engines. Because of this brakes are our only option. This means when taking the turns we have to make sure we are at a speed that we can "stop" right now..
Re: CADORS at YYZ
That is a possibility but I believe they have corresponded with us and stated the slipperiness as their reasoning.ZBBYLW wrote:Hi Cossack, not sure which airline requires a takeoff clearance prior to an engine run, it may be because one of their crews had the power up and without thinking about it commenced a take off roll.. I could very easily see how this could happen on a dark night or early morning.
We're well aware of aircraft performance characteristics in poor conditions and our spacing is adjusted to account for this. There are still occasions when an aircraft performs way differently to what is/has been the norm for those types and conditions and an overshoot results.ZBBYLW wrote:As for breaking too hard/entering the taxi ways "too" slowly I think one thing to keep in mind is typical in YYZ (and elsewhere) the most slippery spots for us are usually right around the taxi ways. I'd imagine this is due to the slower speeds, heat can melt snow and turn it into ice. A 65 ton jet does have trouble with traction and unfortunately at lower speeds the reverse thrust is not ideal as it does not supply us with as much reverse and it can cause damage spewing snow/crap into the engines. Because of this brakes are our only option. This means when taking the turns we have to make sure we are at a speed that we can "stop" right now..
Exits are often reported slipperier than the runway and we communicate this to the crews prior to landing. What I have seen recently is aircraft almost stopping on the runway nowhere near an exit then either speeding up to get to an exit or maintaining low speed until exiting, sometimes at a 90 degree exit which just happens to be close to where they are parking. As a rule we don't treat the non-rapid exit taxiways and they aren't lit either which makes them extremely slippery and almost impossible to find. Target a rapid exit and manage energy to get you there at an appropriate speed to be able to exit safely.