VFR or IFR
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, North Shore
VFR or IFR
Hello everyone,
I just finished my last interview & tour/walk-through of the ACC & the Airport Control Tower. I originally said that my preference was for the VFR/Tower stream but after have my questions answered and getting some more information, I'm seriously debating going into the IFR stream.
I have been told by some controllers that it's better to start in the VFR stream and then bid for an IFR position so that during the lengthier IFR course you are still earning your VFR salary.
Is this true?
Thanks!
I just finished my last interview & tour/walk-through of the ACC & the Airport Control Tower. I originally said that my preference was for the VFR/Tower stream but after have my questions answered and getting some more information, I'm seriously debating going into the IFR stream.
I have been told by some controllers that it's better to start in the VFR stream and then bid for an IFR position so that during the lengthier IFR course you are still earning your VFR salary.
Is this true?
Thanks!
Re: VFR or IFR
Yes absolutely. But it does mean that you will likely have to move away from the city that the ACC is in. But if you are able to do that then it's well worth it.
Re: VFR or IFR
I disagree, I never went VFR and if I had the choice I would go IFR again. Not that vfr doesn't interest but I really like my job and going through training again is a lengthy process even for a qualified controller.
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Re: VFR or IFR
From my experience... I initially hoped for VFR, and then I was placed in the IFR pool. I accepted the first course that was offered to me which happened to be VFR.
As far as I've been told, take the first course they offer you if you want to be a Controller.
Cheers
As far as I've been told, take the first course they offer you if you want to be a Controller.
Cheers
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Re: VFR or IFR
Same here. When asked in the 2nd interview what I preferred, I said VFR. When I got my green light, I was streamed IFR. The first course that came up was VFR, which I was offered, and accepted.
Bottom line, take what's offered, get a license and take it from there...IMO anyway.
Bottom line, take what's offered, get a license and take it from there...IMO anyway.
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Re: VFR or IFR
If you want to stay in Winnipeg, go IFR right away. If you go VFR, there is no guarantee you will land a course for YWG tower, meaning you might get assigned to Whitehorse, for example, and start off with a much lower ATC pay grade when you check out.
All ACC's across Canada are ATC-6 pay scale. Tower pay scales range from 1 to 6. And the only ones that are 6 are YYZ, YUL, YYC and YVR.
All ACC's across Canada are ATC-6 pay scale. Tower pay scales range from 1 to 6. And the only ones that are 6 are YYZ, YUL, YYC and YVR.
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Re: VFR or IFR
You wouldn't end up in Whitehorse off a Winnipeg course. Only options would be Saskatoon, Regina, Winnipeg, St Andrews, or Thunder Bay. Regina and Saskatoon are pretty much staffed so new hires are generally going to the other three.thenoflyzone wrote:If you want to stay in Winnipeg, go IFR right away. If you go VFR, there is no guarantee you will land a course for YWG tower, meaning you might get assigned to Whitehorse, for example, and start off with a much lower ATC pay grade when you check out.
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Re: VFR or IFR
So who can get assigned to Whitehorse or Yellowknife? Only people applying from Edmonton? If the overlying FIR location is the criteria for a tower posting, to try and keep the move as close as possible, then that logic doesn't always make sense in a country as big as ours.HeadingAltitudeSpeed wrote:You wouldn't end up in Whitehorse off a Winnipeg course. Only options would be Saskatoon, Regina, Winnipeg, St Andrews, or Thunder Bay. Regina and Saskatoon are pretty much staffed so new hires are generally going to the other three.thenoflyzone wrote:If you want to stay in Winnipeg, go IFR right away. If you go VFR, there is no guarantee you will land a course for YWG tower, meaning you might get assigned to Whitehorse, for example, and start off with a much lower ATC pay grade when you check out.
Whitehorse is closer to Vancouver than it is to Edmonton. Can a guy from Vancouver ever get assigned to Whitehorse?Saskatoon is also much closer to Edmonton than it is to Winnipeg. Can a VFR applicant from YEG get posted in YXE ?
If the answers are no, then it makes no sense.
Re: VFR or IFR
The answer IS no, for brand new controllers. You are assigned to a tower within the region you trained in. It makes sense since the FIR that trained you gets the benefit of a new controller. Yes, it's Nav Canada that does the training, but the individual FIR's are the ones investing their time and efforts into training you. The moving costs are negligible compared to what is invested in one trainee. Once you put in your time, then you are absolutely able to go wherever you'd like. Think of it this way, as an example. No car dealer is going to spend all his time sitting with you, finding the perfect car, working out all the financing details, taking you for test drives, and generally investing all his efforts to make a sale, then happily hand you off to another salesman so he can get the commission instead. Similar idea. FIRs train people because THEY have the operational need for them.
Re: VFR or IFR
Sense or not, you get assigned to a tower within the FIR that you are training in.thenoflyzone wrote:So who can get assigned to Whitehorse or Yellowknife? Only people applying from Edmonton? If the overlying FIR location is the criteria for a tower posting, to try and keep the move as close as possible, then that logic doesn't always make sense in a country as big as ours.HeadingAltitudeSpeed wrote:You wouldn't end up in Whitehorse off a Winnipeg course. Only options would be Saskatoon, Regina, Winnipeg, St Andrews, or Thunder Bay. Regina and Saskatoon are pretty much staffed so new hires are generally going to the other three.thenoflyzone wrote:If you want to stay in Winnipeg, go IFR right away. If you go VFR, there is no guarantee you will land a course for YWG tower, meaning you might get assigned to Whitehorse, for example, and start off with a much lower ATC pay grade when you check out.
Whitehorse is closer to Vancouver than it is to Edmonton. Can a guy from Vancouver ever get assigned to Whitehorse?Saskatoon is also much closer to Edmonton than it is to Winnipeg. Can a VFR applicant from YEG get posted in YXE ?
If the answers are no, then it makes no sense.
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Re: VFR or IFR
As a controller in YUL ACC I would have expected that you already knew this. Ever since they moved the hiring and training to a regional level this is how postings have been dealt with. Lateral movement post initial qualification is covered in Article 32.thenoflyzone wrote:
So who can get assigned to Whitehorse or Yellowknife? Only people applying from Edmonton? If the overlying FIR location is the criteria for a tower posting, to try and keep the move as close as possible, then that logic doesn't always make sense in a country as big as ours.
Whitehorse is closer to Vancouver than it is to Edmonton. Can a guy from Vancouver ever get assigned to Whitehorse?Saskatoon is also much closer to Edmonton than it is to Winnipeg. Can a VFR applicant from YEG get posted in YXE ?
If the answers are no, then it makes no sense.
Re: VFR or IFR
I'd go IFR, but then again, I like a challenge...
Turn right/left heading XXX, vectors for the hell of it.
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Re: VFR or IFR
I knew it was so in YUL ACC, due to the bilingual issue. I didn't know it was so within all FIRs. If you ask me, training should go back to being centralized in YCC. The quality of ab-initios has gone down significantly since they made the move to regional training, at least in my opinion.HeadingAltitudeSpeed wrote:
As a controller in YUL ACC I would have expected that you already knew this. Ever since they moved the hiring and training to a regional level this is how postings have been dealt with. Lateral movement post initial qualification is covered in Article 32.
Either way, my answer is still the same. Go IFR right away.
Re: VFR or IFR
Let's have a thread about the declining quality of ATCO training! That will make a lovely change.
DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
Re: VFR or IFR
Well I'm sure this is just because of the holidays season and whatever but I'm still awaiting that infamous green light from my second interview (which I personally thought went great!). sigh.