A quick question from ATC to pilots. I'm looking for a normal landing distance for an SW4 under the following conditions:

IFR weather - Ceiling 500' and visibility 2 SM
ILS approach
Wind 30 degrees off center 10G15
Airport elevation 1000'

To be clear I would like to know the LDR (threshold to stopping point).

Thanks!

The performance charts need temperature and landing weight to get a more precise number, and then pilot technique will have some impact on actual real-world performance.

Based on ISA and at maximum landing weight, I get about 2750 feet. Ground roll is 78% of landing distance, or 2145 ft if this is accurate.

Don't forget that a 704 operator must be able to land in 70% of the LDA, which means you need 3929 feet of LDA to be legal.

Also, it's possible in that weather with a long runway, the crew might keep 1/2 flap configuration to touchdown and use around 4000 feet.

Also, it's possible in that weather with a long runway, the crew might keep 1/2 flap configuration to touchdown and use around 4000 feet.

NotDirty! wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:42 am

Don't forget that a 704 operator must be able to land in 70% of the LDA, which means you need 3929 feet of LDA to be legal.

Hmm, now I'm not really familiar with 704 operations but if this is the case then how can companies like Perimeter and Wasaya go in and out of northern Ontario strips? I can't recall exactly but many of those runways are between 3000-3500 feet and especially in winter when the CRFI is bad how would they legally fulfill this requirement?

Black_Tusk wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:30 pm

NotDirty! wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:42 am

Don't forget that a 704 operator must be able to land in 70% of the LDA, which means you need 3929 feet of LDA to be legal.

Hmm, now I'm not really familiar with 704 operations but if this is the case then how can companies like Perimeter and Wasaya go in and out of northern Ontario strips? I can't recall exactly but many of those runways are between 3000-3500 feet and especially in winter when the CRFI is bad how would they legally fulfill this requirement?

703 aircraft? Reduced weights?

Companies like Perimeter will use 703 numbers in order to get in and out of smaller "airports" up north. This is one of the reasons why only the Metro II goes to Berens River. Another trick would be to take less payload. Back when I worked at PAG, we were told to land within the first couple runway lights due to the short runways (Usually an airplane has to land at the 1000ft marker).

The landing is generally not an issue..there are 2 charts to be concerned with in particular... one will be the landing over a 50 foot obstacle, and the other is a max landing weight limit chart which will enable the crew to get a 2.1% gradient in a single engine go with gear up and 1/4 flap... that does not gaurantee obstacle clearance... the landing over a 50 foot chart needs to be ran under 704 with a 70% dispatch factor... so for example if the strip was 4000 feet, it needs to be proven through the chart the plane can stop in 2800 feet to dispatch it... as an example on a 20 degree day at sea level the Metro 3 can land and its max weight of 15500 lbs... this is at full flap... if flapless there is a 75% penalty to the landing distance..
Re takeoff out of the gravel strips.. there is a 15% penalty on ASDA and TODA if 704.. the nw ontario strips are so short in cases it kills the 704 ops for the metro... so thats why you only see 703 out generally... landing 704 is generally not an issue...

Also, Perimeter has paid a rather large sum of cash to have compaction tests completed for the turnaround bays. This sum also covered obstacle clearance surveys for ifr departures. The TORA, TODA, ASDA, and LDA for Perimeter within Manitoba are anywhere from 200’-600’ longer than published in navcan charts and tc approved.

Since the turnaround bays aren’t lighted, there are different numbers for runway distances at night. This explains why a medevac crew can get into berens during the day but it might not be possible at night.

With these surveyed numbers in use you will see the Perimeter crews land within 50’-200’ of the threshold because it is based on performance data from the surveyed charts.

Hi,

Lets say with a landing weight of about 65tons on a dry runway in no wind conditions:

Flaps 30 normal landing:
Maximum Manual Braking: 960m not very good for the brakes and paxcomfort...
Autobrakes on MAX: 1215m
Autobrakes on 3: 1725m
Autobrakes on 2: 2190m during a normal landing we use autobrakes 2, good braking vs pax comfort
Autobrakes on 1: 2415m

Flaps 40:
Maximum Manual Braking: 915m
Autobrakes on MAX: 1135m
Autobrakes on 3: 1590m
Autobrakes on 2: 2030m
Autobrakes on 1: 2260m

Offcourse there are a lot of factors affecting these figures.

Brgds,
Thomas