ATC Layoffs?

[RunwayWindAltimer]

I don’t think any controllers will get laid off, not IFR controllers anyways. Nav Canada offered early retirement to controllers a few months ago and they had to stop because too many were taking it which left the company even shorter staffed than it was before.

Also, there are a lot of people still employed at Nav Canada that are at risk. Laying off all the trainees made the entire training department at the company redundant.

Did they not go through all ERI phases they initially planned? When did they stop?

[wordstwice]

Don’t quote me but I recall they were about the start the last phase and didn’t because enough people took advantage. I was right beside someone who was waiting for that phase to go into action and was willing to take it but never got the offer.

[kevenv]

Don’t quote me but I recall they were about the start the last phase and didn’t because enough people took advantage. I was right beside someone who was waiting for that phase to go into action and was willing to take it but never got the offer.

They did not offer Phases 4 or 5 to ATC because they did not want to offer it to everyone that would have been available in those phases, afraid that if they did, too many from one place would leave them too short.

[VFRDreamer]

Trainee here that got cut yesterday. It’s a painful time, and the gov needs to step in finally to provide more aid. When air traffic recovers there isn’t going to be enough staff. It’s all rather sudden and horrendous.

And the controllers are going to eventually be cut too I think. I imagine they will reshuffle first and than decide. They cut 200 people in one day...probably will do it in bits and pieces.

[Braun]

Trainee here that got cut yesterday. It’s a painful time, and the gov needs to step in finally to provide more aid. When air traffic recovers there isn’t going to be enough staff. It’s all rather sudden and horrendous.

And the controllers are going to eventually be cut too I think. I imagine they will reshuffle first and than decide. They cut 200 people in one day...probably will do it in bits and pieces.

Really sorry you got laid off. It sucks. No one wants this obviously. That being said I would be very, very surprised in controllers came to be cut. They will have to transfer and reoptimize units first. Maybe after that. Hopefully revenues will recover a bit before we get there. good luck, I hope this thing turns around and some of you can get back one day.

[wapitibaby]

I don't know what the projections hold for future trafic, but until Nav has a guarantee that trafic will not come back up for a certain period of time that's when they will lay off controllers, not before. They are too scared of trafic coming back and not being able to provide service at a 100% level that's why they did not lay off in the first place. And if they do lay off controllers they will be called back when the trafic comes up again (before there is any new training), just like what is happening to pilots, we are only months behind them

[clr4takeoff]

Well, now we have the finale answer....
Some IFR (aerea control center) controllers will be laid off 6 month from now. Don't know hom many though. More than a hundred from what I heard.

[Braun]

Well, now we have the finale answer....
Some IFR (aerea control center) controllers will be laid off 6 month from now. Don't know hom many though. More than a hundred from what I heard.

Number is about right. A lot of units are affected. Gander is the hardest hit. They will deploy controllers to currently understaffed units and we’ll see what happens with the rest. Unless there a is major uptick in movements there will most likely be layoffs in the future. They haven’t specifically said how many are being laid off. They also offered more departure incentive packages to make some space.

[wordstwice]

49 IFR controllers served noticed.

[Braun]

49 IFR controllers served noticed.

I honestly thought there were more. Are you sure about the number?

[Mayor_McCheese]

49 IFR controllers served noticed.

I honestly thought there were more. Are you sure about the number?

I heard 50, so 49 probably more accurate.

[Braun]

49 IFR controllers served noticed.

I honestly thought there were more. Are you sure about the number?

I heard 50, so 49 probably more accurate.

49 it is. Just got the CATCA email.

[VFRDreamer]

49 IFR controllers served noticed.

Shoot I know it is majorly selfish but being laid off trainee in the first wave of lat offs makes me more and more scared as more get laid off. Last ones out I assume first ones back, certainly fully licensed controllers before a trainee. This is such a friggin mess. I can’t even imagine long term what the industry will look like.

[Braun]

49 IFR controllers served noticed.

Shoot I know it is majorly selfish but being laid off trainee in the first wave of lat offs makes me more and more scared as more get laid off. Last ones out I assume first ones back, certainly fully licensed controllers before a trainee. This is such a friggin mess. I can’t even imagine long term what the industry will look like.

Also keep in mind there are several Level of Service investigations happening. When the results come out I wouldn’t be surprised if there quite a few VFR controller layoffs as well.

[stabilizedapproach]

If all the LOS reviews come back and end up shutting down towers, I think any surplus controllers will get displaced to short-staffed towers. Just not sure how the company can afford to pay for relocation, and take the cost/risk of possibly having a controller CT'd if they don't make it. And with the optimal staffing strategy, anyone at over-staffed towers even without an LOS should be worried.

Even with surplus, we will still remain short for the long term. Dreamer is, unfortunately, correct - last ones out are likely the first ones back. If it plays out the way I think it will, ab initio training in certain areas will be on pause for a very long time. The union ought to go ballistic if they bring back ab initios while there are still controllers on the streets.

[wapitibaby]

I'm wondering here did the airlines layoff pilots the correct way (respecting the seniority) ? Or are you like us wondering if your name will come out of the sorting hat of layoffs? Or are the companies not giving a @#$! about your seniority and pretending that laying off people will actually make a difference to justify saving 5 days of losses?

[Braun]

If all the LOS reviews come back and end up shutting down towers, I think any surplus controllers will get displaced to short-staffed towers. Just not sure how the company can afford to pay for relocation, and take the cost/risk of possibly having a controller CT'd if they don't make it. And with the optimal staffing strategy, anyone at over-staffed towers even without an LOS should be worried.

Even with surplus, we will still remain short for the long term. Dreamer is, unfortunately, correct - last ones out are likely the first ones back. If it plays out the way I think it will, ab initio training in certain areas will be on pause for a very long time. The union ought to go ballistic if they bring back ab initios while there are still controllers on the streets.

Not sure how last one out first one back is unfortunate. It's just logical. What's unfortunate is that there are layoffs in the first place and that our union never gave us a chance to vote on proposed salary freezes/cuts to save these jobs. Shame on CATCA.

[Braun]

I'm wondering here did the airlines layoff pilots the correct way (respecting the seniority) ? Or are you like us wondering if your name will come out of the sorting hat of layoffs? Or are the companies not giving a @#$! about your seniority and pretending that laying off people will actually make a difference to justify saving 5 days of losses?

The laidoff people in silos. I.E. Every ACC was treated separately and some units with those ACC's were protected from layoffs. Usually, terminals.

[A346Dude]

Not sure how last one out first one back is unfortunate. It's just logical. What's unfortunate is that there are layoffs in the first place and that our union never gave us a chance to vote on proposed salary freezes/cuts to save these jobs. Shame on CATCA.

I think he meant unfortunate for anyone who was “first out”.

Since we don’t know what (if anything) the company proposed to CATCA, I find it hard to call the approach shameful.

[Braun]

Not sure how last one out first one back is unfortunate. It's just logical. What's unfortunate is that there are layoffs in the first place and that our union never gave us a chance to vote on proposed salary freezes/cuts to save these jobs. Shame on CATCA.

I think he meant unfortunate for anyone who was “first out”.

Since we don’t know what (if anything) the company proposed to CATCA, I find it hard to call the approach shameful.

I happen to know that they did propose a deal of this sort. Also I've heard it from reliable sources within the union and from the other side.