Do your job!!

[BackToTheFuture]

Rant:

Controllers are human beings. They make mistakes. Yes, let’s get that out of the way.

I had flight very recently and a few of the controllers, not all, were completely asleep, causing us to level out MULTIPLE times during the climb AND descent by two different centres.

Yes, I’ve been flying for years and this isn’t new. But what I experienced on this flight was utterly disgraceful.

Initial climb cleared to FL230, our Boeing started levelling out approximately 2000 feet before this. I was PF (pilot flying) and asked the Captain (to ask atc) for higher. So he does. The controller says he was “working on it.” Minutes go by. We’re sitting level at 230, with NO ONE else around or even on the frequency! It was just us and we had to level out! I literally think the current controller couldn’t get a hold of the next guy. (No clue what was going on down there).

Then, when we switch to the next guy, the same thing happened! Relatively short flight, only in cruise for about 10 minutes. Ask for lower and he mumbles something nearly incoherent. Then after a few minutes switches us, meanwhile during this time, our descent profile is now fkd for the entire descent because we’ve now lost the profile.

For those controllers that don’t understand why holding us up makes us angry, it’s because our entire descent is calculated in the computer to be as efficient as possible. The computer plans an “idle thrust” descent or as close as possible. When we ask for descent, we need it. Yes, we try to ask slightly ahead of time. The computer tells us about 15NM back from TOD.

When you hold up a large jet, you actually cause it to burn more fuel. We have to aggressively use speed brakes to get back on the profile (or increase IAS manually - if possible). To be held up for traffic, fine. But to be held up when there’s no other traffic around and the controller was simply not paying attention, multiple times on the same flight, it’s inexcusable!

Some controllers are good. And are always on top of this and they get it. So, if that’s you, thank you! They know a large jet needs to descend (and climb) on profile, especially descend. But some CLEARLY do not get this! Wake up! Pay attention! You have one airplane in your airspace. Stay ahead of it! That’s what you get paid to do! Hand them off before they have to prompt you!

Just remember, when you hold up a jet in descent, you’ve caused it to burn more gas. Plain and simple. Ask any other large jet pilot.

You make our job harder by being lazy. You just don’t get it. If you were in the jumpseat and could see for yourself what this causes on our end, you’d never see your job the same way again. It’s difficult to slow or descend a large jet down once it’s ABOVE the profile or “path” in descent.

If you’re holding us up for valid reasons, whatever. This is addressing controllers holding up large jets for no reason other than not paying attention. And knowing that it’s the next sector that issues the descent. Stay ahead of us and switch us over!

Or, if you clear us to say “14,000” and we’re approaching it and it’s still you that’s clearing us lower, don’t make us level out for no reason. Controllers don’t understand how much fuel is wasted because of this.

[doiwannabeapilot]

You seriously don't think they know that ?

Ask any other large jet pilot ?
Do small jet pilots not know a non-idle thrust setting burns more than idle thrust ?

I bet you wear your pilot hat in your hotel room and in the car to the airport.

--------------------------------------------

Just remember, when you hold up a jet in descent, you’ve caused it to burn more gas. Plain and simple. Ask any other large jet pilot.

[PostmasterGeneral]

You seriously don't think they know that ?

Ask any other large jet pilot ?
Do small jet pilots not know a non-idle thrust setting burns more than idle thrust ?

I bet you wear your pilot hat in your hotel room and in the car to the airport.

--------------------------------------------

Just remember, when you hold up a jet in descent, you’ve caused it to burn more gas. Plain and simple. Ask any other large jet pilot.

Exactly what I pictured

[yhz41]

This is the biggest first world problem I have ever seen.

[nvcatc]

.

[Blackdog0301]

You joined the forums just so you could post this?

[Eric Janson]

I just want to thank everyone who coordinated direct NAGNO from the Yukon/Alaska border - longest direct I've ever had.

Nice to be flying over Canada again - not something I normally do.

Saddens me how little traffic there is - 2 opposite direction aircraft between the Alaska border and Montreal.

[Air.Field]

Maybe the OP should be thankful to have a job right now. Plenty of us would take an off profile right now to be back in the air

[DanWEC]

Imagine if some controllers were so entitled and ego-centric that they ranted on even a fraction of things pilots did? This forum would need a server the size of Deep Blue.

Who knows what was going on in the background or who they were on the phone with.

I once had some questions about approaches into YUL. We get step descent clearances and lower often comes juuuuust in time, or during a level off if someone's talking. I private messaged a controller on here out of curiosity and he took the time to give me an excellent, detailed answer with the bottleneck of clearing times off the runways in YUL (The exits aren't in optimized positions) and he broke down how that end up all the way up out the sectors.

Might want to try a more diplomatic approach instead of assuming others aren't as much as a sky god as you.

Good job mansplaining Idle descent though, to someone who makes twice as much money as you and has one of the most stressful jobs in existence.

[GoHomeLeg]

Rant:

Controllers are human beings. They make mistakes. Yes, let’s get that out of the way.

I had flight very recently and a few of the controllers, not all, were completely asleep, causing us to level out MULTIPLE times during the climb AND descent by two different centres.

Yes, I’ve been flying for years and this isn’t new. But what I experienced on this flight was utterly disgraceful.

Initial climb cleared to FL230, our Boeing started levelling out approximately 2000 feet before this. I was PF (pilot flying) and asked the Captain (to ask atc) for higher. So he does. The controller says he was “working on it.” Minutes go by. We’re sitting level at 230, with NO ONE else around or even on the frequency! It was just us and we had to level out! I literally think the current controller couldn’t get a hold of the next guy. (No clue what was going on down there).

Then, when we switch to the next guy, the same thing happened! Relatively short flight, only in cruise for about 10 minutes. Ask for lower and he mumbles something nearly incoherent. Then after a few minutes switches us, meanwhile during this time, our descent profile is now fkd for the entire descent because we’ve now lost the profile.

For those controllers that don’t understand why holding us up makes us angry, it’s because our entire descent is calculated in the computer to be as efficient as possible. The computer plans an “idle thrust” descent or as close as possible. When we ask for descent, we need it. Yes, we try to ask slightly ahead of time. The computer tells us about 15NM back from TOD.

When you hold up a large jet, you actually cause it to burn more fuel. We have to aggressively use speed brakes to get back on the profile (or increase IAS manually - if possible). To be held up for traffic, fine. But to be held up when there’s no other traffic around and the controller was simply not paying attention, multiple times on the same flight, it’s inexcusable!

Some controllers are good. And are always on top of this and they get it. So, if that’s you, thank you! They know a large jet needs to descend (and climb) on profile, especially descend. But some CLEARLY do not get this! Wake up! Pay attention! You have one airplane in your airspace. Stay ahead of it! That’s what you get paid to do! Hand them off before they have to prompt you!

Just remember, when you hold up a jet in descent, you’ve caused it to burn more gas. Plain and simple. Ask any other large jet pilot.

You make our job harder by being lazy. You just don’t get it. If you were in the jumpseat and could see for yourself what this causes on our end, you’d never see your job the same way again. It’s difficult to slow or descend a large jet down once it’s ABOVE the profile or “path” in descent.

If you’re holding us up for valid reasons, whatever. This is addressing controllers holding up large jets for no reason other than not paying attention. And knowing that it’s the next sector that issues the descent. Stay ahead of us and switch us over!

Or, if you clear us to say “14,000” and we’re approaching it and it’s still you that’s clearing us lower, don’t make us level out for no reason. Controllers don’t understand how much fuel is wasted because of this.

Pilot here. You must be a joy to fly with. Holy shit you're angry. Like one commenter said, if ATC ranted every time pilots did stupid shit, it would be 1000 forum pages long.

[northernpilot2]

Rant:

BackToTheFuture -- do your job - FLY.

[dashtrash1]

[J31]

Man, some of you guys are nasty! I do not think BackToTheFuture will be back in the future.

BackToTheFuture you need to relax a bit and enjoy life, I am sure the controllers are not lazy or trying to "Piss you off".

[flying4dollars]

Wowzers bud, it's a bit of an inconvenience yes, but it really isn't THAT bad. I find it more fun when the controllers can't give us lower. It means I get to manipulate the plane more. LNAV/VNAV all the way down is efficient yes, but boring

[the-minister31]

OMG he had to pull the speedbrake lever and burn fuel he doesn't pay for, what a story !

I pitty way more the controller dealing with a crew that have no SA or doesn't understand the language and fucks up their sequence than the pilot that has to go off vertical magenta for a few seconds

There are some good and bad controllers, there are also some good and bad pilots. It's called humans interacting with humans. Go grab a beer on your layover and forget about it.

[stabilizer]

In my flying I've experienced at least 9 out of 10 controllers are professional, helpful and easy going.
How many controllers do you think could say the same about pilots? The number of pilots i hear on the radio sounding like idiots, making silly requests etc...greatly out numbers any inconvenience caused by ATC. Sometimes we pilots think we rule the sky, but we all need to come down to reality. It's just a job, chill out.

[iflyforpie]

No doubt.

+20

Centre, 001, request climb 370.

001, unable 370 due traffic.

[Maynard]

We have to aggressively use speed brakes to get back on the profile (or increase IAS manually - if possible).

Sounds like you should have anticipated when they said stand by and prepare for not getting it, rather than reacting and being "aggressive" Also, could've queried before the "Boeing" started to level itself if you wanted higher.