Todays flow in Winnipeg Terminal=wow!

[10wYQK]

So what was the story today? No training no vfr no nothing? Just like last summer eh?

[Jerricho]

The simple fact is when you have 2 people for 4 positions..............

[tvguru]

Is that the same reason for Class D Advisory's?

[Jerricho]

I'm not sure what you mean by that tvguru.

[bigfssguy]

Well the tables have turned i guess. SInce all FSS apparently want to be controllers, now all controllers want to be FSS. I'm glad that there is equality in each sides job fantasizing!!!!

[TFE731]

Listen, no disrespect, but do us all a favor and show a little class and stop putting the message that you're "short on staff" on your ATIS messages. First of all it doesn't belong on an ATIS and secondly it's humiliating.

[scrambled_legs]

TFE731 do you Fly much? What would be better... we keep it a big secret that two people are working a four person job... would that be classy? That way you can believe we are incompetent rather than short staffed? Not sure how its humiliating but I'm very ashamed, now that you mention it.

I don't know about the Center but I know the Tower has staff that have been trying to leave and have been given dates more than 7 years down the road. So if you think we're just a bunch of loser's that like taking summer holidays... its a far bigger problem than that. I know you wouldn't mind signing up for a company that'll post you anywhere across Canada, and when you get posted in the armpit, being told that you are unable to transfer for a quarter of your career, without having the option to quit and apply for the competition.

Winnipeg is a hole, no sane person wants to live there. The only people that stay, knocked up a number of Courtney Love's mixed with Marilyn Manson's during training and don't want to risk that they're butt ugly children will be seen by their friends, if they transfer home. As long as it's a national company, it will always be the shortest staffed area in Canada.

Why don't you ask me how I really feel about the Peg?

[lilfssister]

SO...how do you really feel about Winnipeg?

[Jerricho]

no sane person wants to live there

Heh.........I lived in England for 6 years. You can't scare me.

Now, I speak for ME and me only here, not a reflection/opinion/representation of NavCanada, but I need this question answered:

Why do I receive calls from VFRs 60 miles north wanting VFR service who, when queried were they aware there was a NOTAM reply "Yeah, we know but we thought we would try anyway". WTF!!??!

[scrambled_legs]

I said sane Jerricho

Don't go turning this on the pilots... you might humiliate them.

[Jerricho]

Is this the point I admit I was initially offered a job in YYZ

Seriously though, any answers to my question? Anyone?

[TFE731]

TFE731 do you Fly much?

Yes.

What would be better... we keep it a big secret that two people are working a four person job... would that be classy?

I said nothing about secrets but whining about it on an ATIS is not ethical. If you have a problem with your job, go to your superiors, and if you feel it is becoming an unsafe situation, then stop coming to work until it is rectified.

So if you think we're just a bunch of loser's that like taking summer holidays... its a far bigger problem than that. I know you wouldn't mind signing up for a company that'll post you anywhere across Canada, and when you get posted in the armpit, being told that you are unable to transfer for a quarter of your career, without having the option to quit and apply for the competition.

Well, actually, it sounds like my flying career to date. Although I would have to disagree with the latter part of your statement where you specify that you don't have the option to quit. Never heard of a job where you are not allowed to quit.

Winnipeg is a hole, no sane person wants to live there. The only people that stay, knocked up a number of Courtney Love's mixed with Marilyn Manson's during training and don't want to risk that they're butt ugly children will be seen by their friends, if they transfer home. As long as it's a national company, it will always be the shortest staffed area in Canada.

Do you like your job? Because it actually appears that you loathe it, so in turn you have sought refuge and personal ratification in trashing the city in which your job exists in. So which do you hate more, Navcanada or Winnipeg? Are you so angry that you want to tell the whole world what your employer is doing to you by placing it on the ATIS? Are you attempting to make a point when you vector the only 2 aircraft approaching the airport at 2200 20 degrees off course on base and have them slow to 180 25 miles out? By the way another classy act by making childish references regarding Winnipeg and the people who live there, myself being one of them.

Why don't you ask me how I really feel about the Peg?

I think I get it now. You actually hate living in Winnipeg so much that you have decided to exploit any circumstance that surfaces to emphasize your dismay with your career choice. Either that or you ended up knocking up a "Courtney Love/Marilyn Manson mix" as you so eloquently put it, and regret it now. Either way you have no business stating it on an ATIS. I want to know the winds, pressure, temperature and what runway we are landing on. Not how you feel. You have no business punishing my crew and 175 passengers because you feel you have a point to make to your employer. And sir, you have no business trashing the city in which I live in, the city that provides me a job, and more importantly the city that is providing you with a job.....

The bottom line is, if you hate your job so much, then quit already. Otherwise, roll up your sleeves, do the job to the best of your abilities, and for god sakes quit whining to the rest of the world about it. I'll say it again, if you have issues, problems with your current work situation then do something about it or make a change.

[tvguru]

I'm not sure what you mean by that tvguru.

I don't have a CFS near me, but if my memory serves are you not required under the procedures section to notify 30min prior to arrival to Tower or Terminal if you don't have a flight plan even though it's Class D airspace in YWG?

[scrambled_legs]

hahaha TFE731... WOW!!! I can't really follow your thought processes so I'll just try and dumb it down for you as best I can.

I think you're the first person to mistake informing the pilots that we are short staffed as whining. It is simply a necessary step that we have to take in order to inform the pilots that there will be restrictions and delays, in order for me to do my job safely. If we don't put it on the ATIS, the pilots will start whining about the unnecessary restrictions and delays. When we put it on the ATIS, the classy more understanding pilots, understand our situation and don't keep demanding immediate service or special requests. It isn't telling my employer anything, it's telling you to sit back and be patient, this might take a while. My employer doesn't listen to the ATIS and in fact tells me that I'm required to put this on the ATIS.

I'm simply doing as I'm told, if you don't like the message on the ATIS then I'm sorry??? If you don't like the restrictions and delays, then complain to my employer and if enough people complain, then maybe NC will stop reducing fees and start spending more money on training to improve our staffing. Personally I could care less. I don't get home any later whether we have 1 or 6 guys working, I just ensure that I move traffic as efficiently as I can, without getting in over my head with too much traffic or special requests.

For the record, I don't work in YWG, nor have I ever lived there. I've been there a few times and that was enough to make me say no. It looked like I was going to be posted there originally and decided that if I was, I would quit rather than live life there. The job is great but it is just that... a job. I work to live, not live to work, so if the living sucks, I don't work there. Unfortunately for those that stuck it out in hopes to transfer, are stuck waiting 7+ years. In case you didn't know there is only 1 company that offers ATC service in Canada and the alternatives are the drive thru at your local restaurant, so no you don't have the option of quiting and applying to work for the competition like you do in the pilot world. I would have gone back to flying if I was sent there but some didn't have that choice. If you can enjoy YWG, than good on you because you sure as hell don't have to pay what I am for a roof over your head. All I know is the majority of Canadians will avoid living there at all costs, myself included.

[AuxBatOn]

I think you're the first person to mistake informing the pilots that we are short staffed as whining. It is simply a necessary step that we have to take in order to inform the pilots that there will be restrictions and delays, in order for me to do my job safely. If we don't put it on the ATIS, the pilots will start whining about the unnecessary restrictions and delays. When we put it on the ATIS, the classy more understanding pilots, understand our situation and don't keep demanding immediate service or special requests. It isn't telling my employer anything, it's telling you to sit back and be patient, this might take a while. My employer doesn't listen to the ATIS and in fact tells me that I'm required to put this on the ATIS.

I have to agree with TFE731. Put the restrictions on the ATIS okay, but we don't need to know and don't want to know you are shortstaffed. The ATIS at some airport is already long enough that we don't need unecessary information that is useless to pilots.

I see you never lived in Winnipeg but yet, allow yourself to say nasty comments about the City. I'm not from there, but I lived there for a few years. Did I have a good opinion of Winnipeg before I moved there? Certainly not. Do I have a good opinion now? Hell yes. It's not Montreal or Vancouver, but it sure is a very decent city.

AuxBatOn

[scrambled_legs]

Many pilots are curious why they're being restricted or delayed and our message is mandated by our management. If you really think adding "due to staffing" to the ATIS is an issue, call NC cause I can't change it no matter how much you whine about it on here. Even if one of you takes the time to call, it'd probably get changed cause none of us could care less what gets put on, as long as you stop expecting regular service.

I've probably spent a month total in YWG, I think that's long enough to form an opinion. Everyone I know that has moved there has complained non-stop about how horrible it is. Sure it might float some peoples boat but it's not a popular place to live hence the transfer waiting list being 7+ years long. Sorry if my attempt at humor upset you, it's obviously a sensitive subject.

[KAFUFO]

yah it almost as if I've been talking about how bad the service is in YWG for a couple years. The best part is the YYZ boy's think they have it bad

[Jerricho]

Still no answer to my question, huh?

[grimey]

I said nothing about secrets but whining about it on an ATIS is not ethical. If you have a problem with your job, go to your superiors, and if you feel it is becoming an unsafe situation, then stop coming to work until it is rectified.

It would be so awesome if ATC and FSS had anything approaching a right to strike.

[W0XOF]

To all the pilots that think by stating "staff shortages" on the ATIS is whining , you're way off base. In order to issue a NOTAM for delays or restrictions in any terminal/tower class C, there has to be a reason in the NOTAM or the NOTAM will not be released by the NOTAM office in Ottawa (which applies ICAO standards by the way). Only one of two possible reasons can be used. Either staff shortage or a navaid outage. Next time you hear it on the ATIS, check the wording in the NOTAM. It HAS to be on there and is mandated nationally. The ATIS has to include the NOTAM verbatim.

Get over yourselves.