2 CPAs for the price of ....poverty

[altiplano]

With the revised CPA AC will achieve the cost objectives that it requires while retaining the service of the most reliable regional service provider in Canada.

Seems like a fair arrangement for both.

Sounds like we agree. AC has to compete.

[rudder]

Sounds like we agree. AC has to compete.

Yes. But if you are suggesting that lowest bidder wins with no other considerations factored into the decision then we disagree.

It does not appear that AC has made a decision to go with lowest bidder in this instance. However, this was a negotiation and AC was facing 5 more years with a very expensive CPA. It's will be interesting to see what decisions AC makes in future CPA RFP awards. That will be determinative of the real role that AC feels that CHR plays in the AC Express portfolio.

[altiplano]

Yes. But if you are suggesting that lowest bidder wins with no other considerations factored into the decision then we disagree.

It does not appear that AC has made a decision to go with lowest bidder in this instance. However, this was a negotiation and AC was facing 5 more years with a very expensive CPA. It's will be interesting to see what decisions AC makes in future CPA RFP awards. That will be determinative of the real role that AC feels that CHR plays in the AC Express portfolio.

Where did I say that it should always be the lowest bidder?

Of course there are commercial decisions and other factors that drive agreements like this. But the CPA had to change for AC to be competitive and guys who apparently either don't like the TA or felt forced into it are saying blame Air Canada for the pressure on CHR and I disagree.

Something HAD to change. Looking at the deal it seems they made out alright.

[teacher]

Yes. But if you are suggesting that lowest bidder wins with no other considerations factored into the decision then we disagree.

It does not appear that AC has made a decision to go with lowest bidder in this instance. However, this was a negotiation and AC was facing 5 more years with a very expensive CPA. It's will be interesting to see what decisions AC makes in future CPA RFP awards. That will be determinative of the real role that AC feels that CHR plays in the AC Express portfolio.

Where did I say that it should always be the lowest bidder?

Of course there are commercial decisions and other factors that drive agreements like this. But the CPA had to change for AC to be competitive and guys who apparently either don't like the TA or felt forced into it are saying blame Air Canada for the pressure on CHR and I disagree.

Something HAD to change. Looking at the deal it seems they made out alright.

The reason I have simplified my comments to "it ACs fault" is because of the "it's Jazz's fault" comments making it seem like Jazz is single handily responsible for the lowering of regional WAWCON. Anyone with half a brain knows that Jazz was just responding to ACs demands for lower costs I exchange for a new CPA. The choice was clear, work within the new parameters or be finished.

[rudder]

The more that I look at what ALPA/Jazz did the more that I see it was a 100% copy of what AC did with Rouge except that Jazz and AC added the incentive to attrit tenured pilots since what is missing from the Jazz plan vs the AC plan is growth. As a matter of fact - the plan is specifically based on fleet reduction and block hour reduction (and a modest reduction in ASM's).

2 operating certificates (AC/Rouge and Jazz/Classic). Single pilot seniority lists. Single collective agreements with LOU's for the newly formed 'division'. Starting pilot pay NOT on par with competitors (AC paying $55K to starting 767 FO at Rouge which is less than any other airline with that equipment in Canada and Jazz paying $36K to starting Q400/CRJ FO below starting pay at Porter and Encore). No more DB pensions for new-hires at either AC/Rouge or Jazz/Classic. Self-renewing consecutive collective agreements with pre-determined COLA increases.

So, for those that are overly critical of the Jazz pilots for agreeing to these conditions one has only to look at recent AC/ACPA agreements to find the template. And while much of the content of those deals emanated from the intervention by the Federal government in the ACPA bargaining process, it would certainly appear that the die was cast several years ago in a plan formed somewhere on Cote-Vertu Blvd..... the pilots at AC and Jazz were simply pawns in a more sophisticated game than they could have imagined.

Hopefully growth at AC and rapid equipment/rank progression at AC/Rouge and Jazz/Classic will balance out the low starting circumstances. Either way, this is how it will be in the AC system for many years to come.

Best of luck to those joining up. It will be an interesting ride.

[TrailerParkBoy]

Sorry but I disagree about the comparison between AC and Jazz contracts.

The similarities end with the creation of 2 companies. I'm too tired to go on!

This contract was a plate of sh*t with a 4 oz piece of Fillet Mignon on it. If you felt you would go hungry at Jazz, you'll vote yes to eating the Fillet Mignon, but will still taste the shi*t because it's touching the only edible piece of meat on the plate!