Winter Bid released today.

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rudder
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Re: Winter Bid released today.

Post by rudder » Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:11 am

Finding 130+ pilots over the next 8-9 months will not be easy. Lots of other tier II carriers looking for pilots as well.
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Re: Winter Bid released today.

Post by skypirate88 » Thu Sep 15, 2016 12:01 pm

rudder wrote:Finding 130+ pilots over the next 8-9 months will not be easy. Lots of other tier II carriers looking for pilots as well.

Perhaps that's a good thing. Maybe the pay will have to increase to attract some of the more experienced folks. Although I suspect, the hiring minimums will just be lowered.

The training department is sure going to be busy though. Between the 130 projected vacancies, and the 200 training events this bid has created there will be plenty of overtime I am sure.
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Re: Winter Bid released today.

Post by Rowdy » Fri Sep 16, 2016 11:52 am

KenoraPilot wrote:Most junior captain at Jazz is YVR DH8 Classic
:wink:
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Re: Winter Bid released today.

Post by Rowdy » Fri Sep 16, 2016 12:02 pm

skypirate88 wrote:
rudder wrote:Finding 130+ pilots over the next 8-9 months will not be easy. Lots of other tier II carriers looking for pilots as well.

Perhaps that's a good thing. Maybe the pay will have to increase to attract some of the more experienced folks. Although I suspect, the hiring minimums will just be lowered.

The training department is sure going to be busy though. Between the 130 projected vacancies, and the 200 training events this bid has created there will be plenty of overtime I am sure.
With the FPMA rumoured to be announced early october.. it could become quite interesting. AC still in need of a +300 pilots at present. Not to mention any early retirements (forecasting is based on everyone going to 65) Plus the fleet plans and additional airframes. How many of those hired after jan 2015 will stay at Jazz? Speaking with many of my peers here, most had planned to go to main line as soon as they could. Same goes with GGN and SKR.

Training department will be flat out.. as will HR. I believe we are already at the lowest point for experience levels with new hires. Any lower and the costs go up with failures and additional training to meet the standards here. It was mentioned to me that the success rate on the RJ is proportionate to the experience level.

There will need to be some incentives or contract changes to attract qualified people to continue this growth plan. Why leave your cushy 1900/king air or corp jet spot for a pay cut and 2 years at Jazz and then another 4 years at AC before your pay returns.

Only time will tell :)
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Re: Winter Bid released today.

Post by goingnowherefast » Fri Sep 16, 2016 1:02 pm

Rowdy wrote:There will need to be some incentives or contract changes to attract qualified people to continue this growth plan. Why leave your cushy 1900/king air or corp jet spot for a pay cut and 2 years at Jazz and then another 4 years at AC before your pay returns.
Well said!
Taking that initial pay cut, that's upwards of 50%, really hurts when it will take 6 of your remaining 35 years of your career to recover from. That's a pay cut for 17% of your remaining career.

Also really sucks when you just finished setting up your house in Toronto, then to find out you are moving to Montreal or Vancouver.
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Re: Winter Bid released today.

Post by Saxub » Fri Sep 16, 2016 1:47 pm

Based on how many vacancies at YVR, looks like not a lot of people wanted to make the move.
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Re: Winter Bid released today.

Post by KenoraPilot » Fri Sep 16, 2016 7:10 pm

I'm surprised so many vacancies in YVR! Used to be the most most senior base and now it's the most junior. Crazy days!
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Re: Winter Bid released today.

Post by Canoehead » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:58 pm

Training department will be flat out
The training department has been flat out for a very long time...
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Re: Winter Bid released today.

Post by Saxub » Sat Sep 17, 2016 6:51 pm

Maybe they might need to start outsourcing SIM training to CAE or Flight Safety. At least for upgrades or machine changes for current pilots. I wonder how they plan to train all the pilots bidding over to different machines, AND training the new hires to meed the demand required by January. I know of a pilot who was hired this year on the RJ and is now going over to the Q to stay in YYZ. How will their training differ from initial courses?
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Re: Winter Bid released today.

Post by av8ts » Sun Sep 18, 2016 6:58 am

Saxub wrote:Maybe they might need to start outsourcing SIM training to CAE or Flight Safety. At least for upgrades or machine changes for current pilots. I wonder how they plan to train all the pilots bidding over to different machines, AND training the new hires to meed the demand required by January. I know of a pilot who was hired this year on the RJ and is now going over to the Q to stay in YYZ. How will their training differ from initial courses?
First I'll say NO OUTSOURCING. That's a slippery slope. Everyone going on the Q does the same intial course, whether your off the RJ or a new hire. Those coming off the Dash classic do a little bit of shorter course
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Re: Winter Bid released today.

Post by goingnowherefast » Mon Sep 19, 2016 7:01 pm

Saxub wrote:I wonder how they plan to train all the pilots bidding over to different machines, AND training the new hires to meed the demand required by January.
Are they? I'd figure they'd stop or dramatically slow external ground schools until they take care of guys that already have a seniority number.

Are they building new sims? I know they're effing expensive, but....
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Re: Winter Bid released today.

Post by duncan » Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:14 am

For November anyways the Calgary Q guys will be doing recurrent training in Seattle.
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Re: Winter Bid released today.

Post by Rowdy » Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:43 am

The rumour is Q sim in YVR.

220 training events from the bid alone, plus another 140 new hire courses. Would be a good time for anyone with the experience to join the training department.

The 3 junior Yvr classic Captains were all in the same nov 2015 class. I'm not sure if that's an anomaly from the base realignment or not. Regardless a big congrats to my classmates.
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Re: Winter Bid released today.

Post by Rowdy » Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:45 am

goingnowherefast wrote:
Saxub wrote:I wonder how they plan to train all the pilots bidding over to different machines, AND training the new hires to meed the demand required by January.
Are they? I'd figure they'd stop or dramatically slow external ground schools until they take care of guys that already have a seniority number.

Are they building new sims? I know they're effing expensive, but....[/quote

Why retrain current line pilots when there is already a shortage? That now leaves two open spots...

I'm curious if they'll put new hires in class with those that are swapping.
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Re: Winter Bid released today.

Post by Saxub » Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:26 pm

Rowdy wrote:The rumour is Q sim in YVR.

220 training events from the bid alone, plus another 140 new hire courses. Would be a good time for anyone with the experience to join the training department.

The 3 junior Yvr classic Captains were all in the same nov 2015 class. I'm not sure if that's an anomaly from the base realignment or not. Regardless a big congrats to my classmates.

Has Jazz ever gone on to say why they don't just have some kind of training compound? IE; find some cheap land in the middle of Canada, relocate all the sims and have dorms/cafeteria/classrooms all on site? Given how the training department is full bore all the time they must be spending a lot on hotel rooms and perdiems etc. I think Avianca has something like this and some big airlines overseas.
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Re: Winter Bid released today.

Post by Canoehead » Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:28 pm

Rowdy wrote: I'm curious if they'll put new hires in class with those that are swapping.
Quite normal. Happens often.
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Re: Winter Bid released today.

Post by Canoehead » Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:38 pm

Saxub wrote:
Has Jazz ever gone on to say why they don't just have some kind of training compound? IE; find some cheap land in the middle of Canada, relocate all the sims and have dorms/cafeteria/classrooms all on site? Given how the training department is full bore all the time they must be spending a lot on hotel rooms and perdiems etc. I think Avianca has something like this and some big airlines overseas.

Will never happen. And this large amount of training thing isn't new...
In fact I believe that the addition of the RJ's and then the massive hiring of 2005-2007 was likely a more significant time in terms of numbers.

I also think that training will be conducted by 3rd parties in the not too far off future.
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Re: Winter Bid released today.

Post by Kosiw » Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:40 pm

Rowdy wrote:The rumour is Q sim in YVR.

220 training events from the bid alone, plus another 140 new hire courses. Would be a good time for anyone with the experience to join the training department.

The 3 junior Yvr classic Captains were all in the same nov 2015 class. I'm not sure if that's an anomaly from the base realignment or not. Regardless a big congrats to my classmates.

Would Jazz ever have to hire Direct Entry Captains to fill the ranks, the way Encore has ??
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Re: Winter Bid released today.

Post by mbav8r » Thu Sep 29, 2016 6:43 am

I wouldn't say never but unlikely for a long time to come yet. There are plenty of FOs with thousands of hours who are just bidding for lifestyle, as the Captain spots go more junior, you'll start to see those higher time FOs bid to the left seat.
As the PML runs through, that'll free up some seniority for the long time FOs who chose to stay to bid Captain with decent lifestyle. The problem will come with the next PML, if AC takes a high percentage of the next ones, Jazz will start losing pilots who maybe came here with 1500 hrs and be left with the university grads who will be quite a while to upgrade.
There are plenty of other variables that come to mind but above is my view of the next few years.
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Re: Winter Bid released today.

Post by plhought » Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:35 pm

Saxub wrote: Has Jazz ever gone on to say why they don't just have some kind of training compound? IE; find some cheap land in the middle of Canada, relocate all the sims and have dorms/cafeteria/classrooms all on site? Given how the training department is full bore all the time they must be spending a lot on hotel rooms and perdiems etc. I think Avianca has something like this and some big airlines overseas.
Have ya ever seen what the YVR CP/Canadian Airlines (now AC) hangar was? Exactly that. Not sure what's happened to it all in last 25 years.

YVR still has a Classic Dash sim anyways too.
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Re: Winter Bid released today.

Post by Saxub » Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:16 pm

plhought wrote:
Saxub wrote: Has Jazz ever gone on to say why they don't just have some kind of training compound? IE; find some cheap land in the middle of Canada, relocate all the sims and have dorms/cafeteria/classrooms all on site? Given how the training department is full bore all the time they must be spending a lot on hotel rooms and perdiems etc. I think Avianca has something like this and some big airlines overseas.
Have ya ever seen what the YVR CP/Canadian Airlines (now AC) hangar was? Exactly that. Not sure what's happened to it all in last 25 years.

YVR still has a Classic Dash sim anyways too.

I'm too young to remember anything from that time, but I have been in the Jazz/AC building on South Terminal. Not far from the Flying Beaver. Is that the old building? I could tell from being inside with all the classrooms etc. as well as the big area where the sims were that it was built for a purpose.
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Re: Winter Bid released today.

Post by plhought » Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:50 pm

Saxub wrote:Not far from the Flying Beaver. Is that the old building? I could tell from being inside with all the classrooms etc. as well as the big area where the sims were that it was built for a purpose.
This is the one i'm talking about: http://cpair.blogspot.ca/2006/02/vancou ... entre.html

Funny how AC is building a new similar facility in Toronto - When this one lays idle (well...idle relative to how busy it was during CP/Canadian Airlines/Aveos/Air Canada days).
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Re: Winter Bid released today.

Post by skypirate88 » Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:51 pm

Instead of starting a new thread, I thought this may fit here.

An award was released today upgrading 54 folks. Junior captain has a DOH of January 2016, and will be on the Classic in YVR.

Congrats to all the upgrades.
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Re: Winter Bid released today.

Post by HansDietrich » Mon Nov 28, 2016 7:06 pm

That's great. I'm curious what spots they will offer on the next few ground-schools. Speaking of which, I heard there might be one on the 12 and one in January? This is exciting news.
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Re: Winter Bid released today.

Post by goingnowherefast » Tue Nov 29, 2016 6:35 am

skypirate88 wrote:Junior captain has a DOH of January 2016, and will be on the Classic in YVR.
Congratulations to him, but wow!
Looking at the experience of my friends that went to Jazz, there's a very real possibility that this guy is under 3000 hours and it's quite possible that he's even under 2000. 704 and some 703 companies won't upgrade a guy with that time!

Are there any mechanisms in place to ensure experience?
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