Ineresting.
So you/senior guys vote to make sure the junior guys will not get the good DB pension, and then you are angry those junior guys consider doing something about your DB pension? You sir, are a hypocrite.
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Ineresting.
So you/senior guys vote to make sure the junior guys will not get the good DB pension, and then you are angry those junior guys consider doing something about your DB pension? You sir, are a hypocrite.
Digits,
mbav8r seems to be afraid they are taking his away, which implies he is getting one?
Oh absolutely. I only have an issue with 2 different payscales withing the same company. Of course it is better if the B would increase to the A scale so there is only one left. But if for whatever reason that is impossible, it would only be fair the A scale would take a slight pay cut to get everyone back on the same scale.prop2jet wrote: ↑Sat Apr 07, 2018 10:21 am The solution is not to ask those on the A scale to take the cuts but rather to eliminate the B scale. With respect to pensions, that will not change. DC is here to stay as it is everywhere else. All that can be done on that front is to ensure they are improved.
mbav8r wrote: ↑Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:55 pmThank you for displaying exactly what embodies the sense of entitlement people keep talking about!FL-280 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:13 pmYou have to be kidding.... You guys will make up anything to keep the top scale intact and DB pension until you retire.av8ts wrote: ↑Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:24 pm With many professions (doctors, lawyers etc) your starting pay is based on experience. Most of the f/o’s I’m flying with are making twice the pay and flying half the hours (stick time) than what I made with the same experience. That’s 4 times what I was was making 20 years ago. Maybe instead of an A and B scale we should just base pay on your actual hours.
Comparing wages now and twenty years ago, thats plain stupid.Is a first year f/o with let's say 1000 hours supposed to feel super lucky because he has a 38k per year job?
Mind you some of them are flying jets in High Density airspace and putting up with your BS.
With more and more groundschools at AC going by with plenty of Encore pilots on them, it's looking like the FPMA is crap and we will be around for a while, So equal work should be equal pay.
10 years ago, you would of been scrubbing toilets and cleaning the boss’s car while waiting to load another freighter of pop and chips, living in buttfuck nowhere for a lot less than 38,000.
Can I point something out to you, YOU DIDNT HAVE TO TAKE THE JOB!!!!! And that comment at the top says a lot about what type of person you are, not only did you take the job but now you’re making thinly veiled threats about my DB pension.
I’m willing to wager you will be turned down by AC, they will see you for what you are and unfortunately that means we’re stuck with you, good luck though
Bold and untrue statement. New 2015 CA was ratify somewhere in January or February. And Effective July 1st july 2015. But Jazz held GS in March the same year. So I'm pretty sure those in the March to July GS didn't have the final wording in hand when they sign up. Also PMA wording was completed 2 years later or so. So for those who signup to Jazz at AC request for the AC mobility didn't have the detail of the mobility agreement when they sign in. So yes I would tend to agree they have the right to be mad today.
The first couple of classes on the new CA were I concede the only group justifiably burned by the terms and conditions of the new CA.Mart wrote: ↑Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:32 amBold and untrue statement. New 2015 CA was ratify somewhere in January or February. And Effective July 1st july 2015. But Jazz held GS in March the same year. So I'm pretty sure those in the March to July GS didn't have the final wording in hand when they sign up. Also PMA wording was completed 2 years later or so. So for those who signup to Jazz at AC request for the AC mobility didn't have the detail of the mobility agreement when they sign in. So yes I would tend to agree they have the right to be mad today.
But again we are heading the wrong direction. The problem is all about equal work equal pay that is the basic of our workforce in Canada and should remain. Jazz open the path to discrimination in our rank and thats is totally unacceptable. ALPA and Jazz where proud to go in the media saying they sign a record 10 years CA with competitive wage but they never mention they would discriminate a full generation of pilots.
I don't care about how you had it hard in the past and you think because of that everyone else should go trough the same hard path, my grandfather died mining without adequate protective equipment will I ask the new generation of miner to do the same? Some of your logic seems to go that way.
I don't care that you have DB pension plan, good for you you were able to cash out on this when economic was going through the roof. But now that you you know these plan are long gone and never to come back, you should show a bit more respect for those you will still be working towards their 70 to fill in your pension IF it tanked.
I don't care about the 37K first year pay, like it was said before, unfortunately it is the standard wage in Canada for regional aviation. And also like someone said before you knew the wage when you sign up. I was able to provide for my kids and have a house with far lower wage when I started my career, so seeing today kids living with their parents, but having iPhone, iPad, iCar, iTravel, iName It, I cannot agree with their complaints. At the end of the day it's all about choice. Average Canadian wage is 37 700$/years. So I think out of school pilots who complain on entry level pay should look around a bit.
And for those of you who still continue to dream about a theory that if nobody sign up, the wage would increase. You are badly educate on how the system works. Again, there is far less job available then their is human able to work on the planet, that is a known fact. The sooner you understand this the better you will use your voting power in the future, those who can change the system is and will always be those in a controlling position or in a position to vote. And if you still believe in your theory why did you sign up for a crappy PML to go for low entry level wage again at AC. If you had voted with your feet like you said within a short times AC would have need to increase it's wage and start a ripple effect on Canadian market. Instead of this 700 of Jazz pilots forfeit their pension plan, their +80k/years wage on average and more then 3 weeks vacation to go fly a big shiny jet for 55k/year no vacation for the first year and of course start all over again schedule wise.
EQUAL WORK, EQUAL PAY! it's all I care for right now and ALPA should have been all over this and it should have been all over in the media when the CA was sign, just like it is in the US market and elsewhere in the world. How a company can easily promote discrimination based on a date of hire like this is silly. And when 2025 comes will be able to work all together to really improve the Canadian pilot working condition, there is still a lot to be done schedule wise and in other area like experience recognition.
Regional flying is not and should not be considered a stepping stone. There will be always a need for regional flying and there will be always pilots who rather fly shorter leg and be home every night instead of doing crazy red eye flights or living the jet lag dreams. And if AC wants it's provider to be a stepping stone for mainline then they should step in the game for real and implement a real flow through or a national seniority list like it was attempted before. Not this stupid PMA worthless list.
Rumour is that GGN has a CPA to 2021. The GGN fleet is mostly comprised of aircraft that AC seemingly does not see as part of the long term Express fleet plan.Ifly wrote: ↑Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:41 am You guys are hilarious!
As a former Jazz, now AC guy I can tell you this...Jazz is still viewed as being too expensive. If guys like FL280 decide that they should have everything that the generations before had, that will lead you to one place...Jazz will cease to exist. AC is looking at bringing as much of the regional flying home as possible, and Georgian/Sky could likely handle the rest.
I'm sure someone in the corporate suite at AC, is reading this thread and drooling at the opportunity to pit the Jazz pilots against one another, vote themselves a big fat raise, so AC can end the contract once and for all!
There are plenty of opportunities in aviation right now, both at home and abroad, if you're upset with the B scale and can't be bothered to understand how it came about, then vote with your feet and find something that pays you fairly. Threatening someone else's livelihood and pension is just childish.
I never suggested such a dumb idea. Thats the purpose of a pay scale to factor in experience.
Lol. Hope you don’t have an application in with AC. If so you’re going to hate it.
No I don't, as long as AC don't recognize our experience either I won't send my resume in, you happy?
It does, just like other law in other province. But flying is done under federal rule and the federal working law are about a 100 years old. So no provision for this.
Then so be it. If a company is too expensive and wages need to be cut, then do it fairly across the board, don't let all the new lower paid hires take the extra pay cuts.