PML Portal

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godfather
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PML Portal

Post by godfather » Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:56 am

A discussion to get a consensus on what is happening with the portal with Air Canada. Any updates on how much they are going to be hiring from Jazz, if any?
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PositiveRate27
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Re: PML Portal

Post by PositiveRate27 » Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:37 pm

They and only they know that. Anything you hear is just conjecture. I’ve been hearing since the day I got hired in 2015 that mainline would be picking up the hiring any day now.... still here and feeling farther from mainline than ever.
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mmm..bacon
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Re: PML Portal

Post by mmm..bacon » Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:55 am

PositiveRate27 wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:37 pm
They and only they know that. Anything you hear is just conjecture. I’ve been hearing since the day I got hired in 2015 that mainline would be picking up the hiring any day now.... still here and feeling farther from mainline than ever.
Bait, and switch?
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JLA
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Re: PML Portal

Post by JLA » Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:37 am

Nobody from jazz on the june GS...
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PositiveRate27
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Re: PML Portal

Post by PositiveRate27 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:48 am

mmm..bacon wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:55 am
PositiveRate27 wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:37 pm
They and only they know that. Anything you hear is just conjecture. I’ve been hearing since the day I got hired in 2015 that mainline would be picking up the hiring any day now.... still here and feeling farther from mainline than ever.
Bait, and switch?
How does the saying go? If the shoe fits?
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dhc#
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Re: PML Portal

Post by dhc# » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:05 am

I guess all the drivers from WJ and WJE getting on at AC are thanking you for your service at Jazz :lol:
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RILEY
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Re: PML Portal

Post by RILEY » Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:07 am

For those who have degrees most people I’ve talked to say stick it out where you are especially if at a 704/705 op and get some PIC time, just a matter of time before you get on with AC via the OTS route.
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Outlaw58
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Re: PML Portal

Post by Outlaw58 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:47 am

My personal history taught me that making decisions based on what has happened recently is foolish at best.

I waited to apply to Jazz cause I didn't want to be on that FO salary for 2-3 years until a friend told me that upgrades were going between 8-12 months. Based on that I applied and now that I am in, upgrades are probably back at the 2 year mark.

So....

If I was a betting man, I'd say 4 AC ground school until the end of the year, 12-15 from Jazz per GS, so 60 give or take a few going to AC from Jazz until the end of the year. Not a betting man though... I do believe that history has a tendency to repeat itself.

58
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JLA
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Re: PML Portal

Post by JLA » Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:04 pm

With maybe 2-3 in the may gs, and 0 in june gs at AC you have to review. Guys I know at Jazz are applying at TS or SW to get out.
The wj family sends 3 or 4 times more candidates to mainline than express....
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PositiveRate27
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Re: PML Portal

Post by PositiveRate27 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:34 pm

Jazz also has lots going to Emirates/FlyDubai as well as heading back to the 704 carriers they came from. Beware of anyone advertising anything remotely implying a guaranteed interview with a Air Canada.
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Tap
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Re: PML Portal

Post by Tap » Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:22 pm

When you say lots, approx how many? 30 or so?
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PositiveRate27
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Re: PML Portal

Post by PositiveRate27 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:16 pm

Couldn’t tell you an exact figure. We have 1600 pilots at 4 bases from coast to coast. I personally know 5 that have gone to the ME in the last couple years and a dozen who attended the Emirates road show in western Canada last month. A few of them have interviews as a result. 30’s probably not a stretch, but I have no idea.
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Re: PML Portal

Post by Rowdy » Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:04 pm

PositiveRate27 wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:16 pm
Couldn’t tell you an exact figure. We have 1600 pilots at 4 bases from coast to coast. I personally know 5 that have gone to the ME in the last couple years and a dozen who attended the Emirates road show in western Canada last month. A few of them have interviews as a result. 30’s probably not a stretch, but I have no idea.
I know of Two that have left for the ME. The remainder have gone to AT and of course all those that moved over to AC.

I think the count for those that have left the red team is a handful. Pretty small numbers considering..
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altiplano
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Re: PML Portal

Post by altiplano » Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:53 am

If memory serves me right...

Didn't mainline hire 80% from Jazz in every groundschool for like 3 years or something?

I'm flying with tons of ex-Jazz pilots. Everything in waves I'd guess.
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PositiveRate27
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Re: PML Portal

Post by PositiveRate27 » Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:46 am

altiplano wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:53 am
If memory serves me right...

Didn't mainline hire 80% from Jazz in every groundschool for like 3 years or something?

I'm flying with tons of ex-Jazz pilots. Everything in waves I'd guess.
The devil is in the details. Almost everyone who’s gone over to mainline was on PML 1. Guaranteed interview, with flow incentive pay. These were people too expensive to keep at Jazz. A very few amount of B scalers have actually gone to mainline. There has been an exceptionally high PFO rate of those B scalers who have interviewed.

I’m of the firm belief that Air Canada is entitled to hire who they want, when they want. With that being said, I think people applying to express should have a realistic expectation of what the hiring agreements between AC and it’s express carriers are. This could all change tomorrow and AC could start hiring massively from express, but if you haven’t been on PML 1 in the last 3 years you’re probably better off OTS, especially if you have a diploma or degree.
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JLA
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Re: PML Portal

Post by JLA » Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:37 am

Absolutely true. If you have a degree, go to the wj family, sw or at, wait there while building a useful seniority number. At least if you are pfod you're already in a good spot.
Plus there an incentive to hire senior guys from sky who are pushing for alpa. Jazz folks on the bscale cost nothing to jazz, keeping the cpa costs low.
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ARGO
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Re: PML Portal

Post by ARGO » Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:55 pm

Someone mentioned that drivers are returning to their previous 704 jobs...does this happen a lot?
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Tap
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Re: PML Portal

Post by Tap » Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:31 pm

Is it all bad news for B scale? Doesn’t sound like there’s a PML, low wages, and slower upgrades with the LOA?
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Minimums500
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Re: PML Portal

Post by Minimums500 » Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:39 am

JLA wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:37 am
Absolutely true. If you have a degree, go to the wj family, sw or at, wait there while building a useful seniority number. At least if you are pfod you're already in a good spot.
Plus there an incentive to hire senior guys from sky who are pushing for alpa. Jazz folks on the bscale cost nothing to jazz, keeping the cpa costs low.
And what if you dont have a degree and mainline is the goal? Stick it out or try jazz?
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Re: PML Portal

Post by KenoraPilot » Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:35 am

Tap wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:31 pm
Is it all bad news for B scale? Doesn’t sound like there’s a PML, low wages, and slower upgrades with the LOA?
Hey Tap, things have for sure slowed down. Basically coming to Jazz is all about perspective at the moment. I can't say the B-Scale PAY is very good or appealing, that being said however, if you come from Collage or this is almost your first job its not a bad one. Basically if you were a captain elsewhere making more money than a B-Scale FO and you come to Jazz you won't be happy as the upgrades have slowed down (but should ramp up again soon hopefully). If your dream is 1000% Air Canada and nowhere else then Jazz is "a" route you can take to AC its not the only or the fastest, but its one route. I personally don't think there is "A" perfect guaranteed route to AC at the moment.The new hiring "portal" is NOT PML 1.0 in any way shape or form.

The job itself is pretty decent with a great working contract (outside of pay), co-workers, amazing health benefits and vacation time. (IMO). I am a little biased as I am B-Scale, however, I am now a captain. Basically people have to do their due diligence and decide whats best for them. If the main thing is money and the fastest route to AC, then maybe Jazz isn't for you currently. If Jazz will be a pay raise for you and its a possible route to AC then common over. (Again I am as much against the pay scale as the rest, Im just being a honest....the pay sucks but its not going to change immediately) If you come to Jazz with a positive attitude you will enjoy it even with the crap pay and the ups and downs. If you show up day one pissed off about pay and other things, then you're never going to enjoy it no matter what happens.

Again all an opinion and my 2 cents, to take it for what thats worth (literally nothing lol)
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dhc#
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Re: PML Portal

Post by dhc# » Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:44 am

Anyone have an estimate as to how many took a LOA from Jazz ?
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Re: PML Portal

Post by KenoraPilot » Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:01 pm

dhc# wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:44 am
Anyone have an estimate as to how many took a LOA from Jazz ?
I had heard ball park 25-40 total from YYC & YVR. Second hand info.
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Oxi
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Re: PML Portal

Post by Oxi » Fri Aug 24, 2018 3:04 pm

all VAL loas were filled
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Re: PML Portal

Post by AvifiskAlly » Sat Aug 25, 2018 7:35 am

Tap wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:31 pm
Is it all bad news for B scale? Doesn’t sound like there’s a PML, low wages, and slower upgrades with the LOA?
I think AVCan readers need to remember most people on here that talk about the current PML not working are either not at Express or didn't make it through the process. One would have to assume they were never going to make it to AC regardless of the entry point. The voices missing from the site are all those Sky, Jazz and GGN drivers that are now at AC.

I can't comment on OTS vs PML numbers this year as I haven't looked in a while but from an interview perspective, the PML is the only path with a guarantee. Yes, the bad part of that is they end up having to interview people they know they are not going to hire and would not have interviewed if that person applied OTS. For sure WJ has been a great way into AC lately and I would be surprised if that's not the 2018 winner in numbers.
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PositiveRate27
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Re: PML Portal

Post by PositiveRate27 » Sat Aug 25, 2018 12:58 pm

AvifiskAlly wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 7:35 am
Tap wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:31 pm
Is it all bad news for B scale? Doesn’t sound like there’s a PML, low wages, and slower upgrades with the LOA?
I think AVCan readers need to remember most people on here that talk about the current PML not working are either not at Express or didn't make it through the process. One would have to assume they were never going to make it to AC regardless of the entry point. The voices missing from the site are all those Sky, Jazz and GGN drivers that are now at AC.

I can't comment on OTS vs PML numbers this year as I haven't looked in a while but from an interview perspective, the PML is the only path with a guarantee. Yes, the bad part of that is they end up having to interview people they know they are not going to hire and would not have interviewed if that person applied OTS. For sure WJ has been a great way into AC lately and I would be surprised if that's not the 2018 winner in numbers.
What is the guarantee you’re claiming? I’ve been at Jazz for 3 years, have had no interview, and have had no communication on when to expect one. The guaranteed interview seems to be something created by hopeful candidates, but never anything I’ve ever heard Jazz or Air Canada commit to.
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