Classic Dash replacement??

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Splash
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by Splash » Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:48 am

KenoraPilot wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:09 am
This is a large sale all at once for CMA?
Likely sale to cover off the Georgian flying out of Calgary come May 1st.
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KenoraPilot
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by KenoraPilot » Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:48 pm

Very possible, but hoping the flying goes to Jazz on the DH8.
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rudder
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by rudder » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:01 pm

rudder wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:31 am
Current AC Express fleet per aircanada.com:

46 76 seat jets
24 50 seat jets
44 78 seat props
40 37/50 seat props
*B1900 not listed

My guess as to Express fleet circa 2020:

51 76 seat jets
16 50 seat jets
49 78 seat props
35 37/50 seat props

My guess as to Express fleet circa 2025:

60 76 seat jets
55 78 seat props
20 30-50 seat props *(possible code share)

Older smaller gauge/lower ownership or lease expense aircraft are useful but not realistic in the long term in the Express operating fleet. Every aircraft eventually reaches the end of its useful life. Even AC is dealing with that reality as it renews it’s own fleet. Acquiring a new aircraft in the 50 seat prop category would be quite expensive and likely involve a manufacturer not currently in service in the Express fleet. AC may have to make decisions about how it will maintain a commercial presence in some of the very small communities it currently serves using Express. AC may end up with codeshare agreements with several local tier 2 operators that are currently competitors.

Also, there are routes currently operated by Express that will likely revert back to mainline/Rouge as the AC fleet renewal process evolves and stabilizes. However, having a jet gauge gap from 76 seats (CRJ900/E175) to 145/135 seats (A220-300/Rouge A319) may cause AC to consider the smaller A220-100 as a possible solution to allow for increased frequency on some city pairs.

It is likely the trend for Express will be increased ASM’s but decreased fleet and block hours.
I hate to quote myself but....

Using the information Chorus included in the presentation on the corporate website related to the modified CPA with AC, here is the projected Express fleet circa 2025:

60 76 seat jets (SKY included)
15 50 seat jets
36 78 seat props
19 50 seat props

The piece that seems the most divergent is the size of the Q400 fleet. My guess is that the Q400 and CRJ200 fleets will be subject to further changes in the 2021-2025 time frame subject to the competitive landscape and the price of fuel.
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ogc
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by ogc » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:22 pm

rudder wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:01 pm

I hate to quote myself but....

Using the information Chorus included in the presentation on the corporate website related to the modified CPA with AC, here is the projected Express fleet circa 2025:

60 76 seat jets (SKY included)
15 50 seat jets
36 78 seat props
19 50 seat props

The piece that seems the most divergent is the size of the Q400 fleet. My guess is that the Q400 and CRJ200 fleets will be subject to further changes in the 2021-2025 time frame subject to the competitive landscape and the price of fuel.
Based on no 37 seat prop and reduction in 50 seat prop does that mean no more DH8 flying out of Toronto? Q400 excluded?
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Inverted2
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by Inverted2 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:32 pm

I would imagine so. The Q can do pretty much every classic route out of YYZ except for Sarnia maybe. I would think the remaining -300s would do some flying out of YVR the Q can't get into and some YUL stuff to the smaller places in Kaybec that wouldn't be viable in a 78 seat aircraft. Just my guess.
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KenoraPilot
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by KenoraPilot » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:33 pm

I would assume the Q will stay in YYZ and possibly some DH8-311's will make they way out to YYZ & YUL to pick up some of the required small gauge flying. I believe it's just the DH8-301's that are unable to get the "life extension" due to no more "new gear" for them. The 311's can all be extended. (which is the 19x 50 seat turbo props you see). I would expect to see an influx of RJ's and Q's out west then to help pick up some of the flying, but truly a lot of the original Classic flying out of YVR has already gone over to the Q. (YYJ, YCD, YLW, YXT, SEA, PDX)
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KenoraPilot
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by KenoraPilot » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:34 pm

Inverted2 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:32 pm
I would imagine so. The Q can do pretty much every classic route out of YYZ except for Sarnia maybe. I would think the remaining -300s would do some flying out of YVR the Q can't get into and some YUL stuff to the smaller places in Kaybec that wouldn't be viable in a 78 seat aircraft. Just my guess.
Kingston as well
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by HansDietrich » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:38 pm

KenoraPilot wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:34 pm
Inverted2 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:32 pm
I would imagine so. The Q can do pretty much every classic route out of YYZ except for Sarnia maybe. I would think the remaining -300s would do some flying out of YVR the Q can't get into and some YUL stuff to the smaller places in Kaybec that wouldn't be viable in a 78 seat aircraft. Just my guess.
Kingston as well
Last Christmas I worked there (2017) they had the Q go into Kingston. I wonder if it was just a replacement for the -100, or they were trying new routes out or just busy holiday flying...
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by RNAV30 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:41 pm

KenoraPilot wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:34 pm
Inverted2 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:32 pm
I would imagine so. The Q can do pretty much every classic route out of YYZ except for Sarnia maybe. I would think the remaining -300s would do some flying out of YVR the Q can't get into and some YUL stuff to the smaller places in Kaybec that wouldn't be viable in a 78 seat aircraft. Just my guess.
Kingston as well
The Q is already operating into YGK
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KenoraPilot
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by KenoraPilot » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:07 pm

RNAV30 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:41 pm
KenoraPilot wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:34 pm
Inverted2 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:32 pm
I would imagine so. The Q can do pretty much every classic route out of YYZ except for Sarnia maybe. I would think the remaining -300s would do some flying out of YVR the Q can't get into and some YUL stuff to the smaller places in Kaybec that wouldn't be viable in a 78 seat aircraft. Just my guess.
Kingston as well
The Q is already operating into YGK

That’s good news!
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cloudskimmer
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by cloudskimmer » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:45 pm

KenoraPilot wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:07 pm
RNAV30 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:41 pm
KenoraPilot wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:34 pm


Kingston as well
The Q is already operating into YGK

That’s good news!
Isn't a great airport for the Q though. Especially in the winter. 100' wide runway..if it's plowed to the edges (limit is 98' for the Q in order to be able to turn around) and 5000' if landing on 19. It's tight...
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prop2jet
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by prop2jet » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:17 pm

cloudskimmer wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:45 pm
KenoraPilot wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:07 pm
RNAV30 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:41 pm


The Q is already operating into YGK

That’s good news!
Isn't a great airport for the Q though. Especially in the winter. 100' wide runway..if it's plowed to the edges (limit is 98' for the Q in order to be able to turn around) and 5000' if landing on 19. It's tight...
CYGK 01/19 is 6000 ft. There is a turning bay at the button of 19 so landing on 01 is not an issue when it comes to the backtrack.
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cloudskimmer
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by cloudskimmer » Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:17 pm

prop2jet wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:17 pm
cloudskimmer wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:45 pm
KenoraPilot wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:07 pm



That’s good news!
Isn't a great airport for the Q though. Especially in the winter. 100' wide runway..if it's plowed to the edges (limit is 98' for the Q in order to be able to turn around) and 5000' if landing on 19. It's tight...
CYGK 01/19 is 6000 ft. There is a turning bay at the button of 19 so landing on 01 is not an issue when it comes to the backtrack.
The threshold is displaced on 19 by 1000' so your LDA is 5000'. The turning bay is also at the displaced threshold not at the end. It's tricky if the runway isn't totally plowed to the edges or the turning bay isn't cleared or blocked by windrows.
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Monorail Conductor
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by Monorail Conductor » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:23 pm

With the new fleet plan, I imagine this next equipment bid is going to be an epic Dash 8 reduction in YYZ (all 100s), partial reduction in YUL.

Existing classic routes for runs like YGR, ZBF, YGK, YYB, maritimes etc will just go on the 300 is my guess. Other classic routes to be upgauged and run with less frequency.

Big shake up out east for sure.
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by Rowdy » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:30 pm

Monorail Conductor wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:23 pm
With the new fleet plan, I imagine this next equipment bid is going to be an epic Dash 8 reduction in YYZ (all 100s), partial reduction in YUL.

Existing classic routes for runs like YGR, ZBF, YGK, YYB, maritimes etc will just go on the 300 is my guess. Other classic routes to be upgauged and run with less frequency.

Big shake up out east for sure.
I'm betting it'll be -100 flying put on the Q and Q flying going to the RJ. Perhaps there is also move afoot to simply drop a lot of the smaller routes?
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by av8ts » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:43 am

HansDietrich wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:09 pm
The Dash 8-100/300 needs to be replaced ASAP. I didn't like it as a pilot and I like it even less as a paying passenger. Why you may ask:

1. Crap bin space, where I can't fit anything more than a coat.
2. Sky Check, where they break or dirty my carry on bag (not to mention having to take my laptop, etc on the plane with me and wrap it around in my coat)
3. Poor leg room
4. Loud
5. Vibrates
6. Bad temp control (too cold / too hot)

The Q400 is miles ahead of this abomination named the "Classic". Air Canada needs to rid itself of such old aircraft right away. If an ex Dash pilot hates is so much, how do you think passengers feel about it? I'm actually shocked that Canada's "legacy carrier" even allows such junks to have their name on it. If I had the choice between Encore or Porter, I'd choose them in a heartbeat over Jazz, simply because of the "Classic Crap 8".

That's how I really feel about it.
I’ll disagree on one point here. The Q400 has a similar crappy heating/cooling system as the 300. In winter at night with a large pax load either pax are to hot or pilots froze. It’s one or the other
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A V I A T O
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by A V I A T O » Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:18 pm

cloudskimmer wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:45 pm
KenoraPilot wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:07 pm
RNAV30 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:41 pm


The Q is already operating into YGK

That’s good news!
Isn't a great airport for the Q though. Especially in the winter. 100' wide runway..if it's plowed to the edges (limit is 98' for the Q in order to be able to turn around) and 5000' if landing on 19. It's tight...
Has anyone encountered issues taking a Q into YGK with contamination, icing etc?. Not a Q driver, but its my understanding Qs can be runway hogs.
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by daedalusx » Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:41 pm

av8ts wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:43 am
HansDietrich wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:09 pm
The Dash 8-100/300 needs to be replaced ASAP. I didn't like it as a pilot and I like it even less as a paying passenger. Why you may ask:

1. Crap bin space, where I can't fit anything more than a coat.
2. Sky Check, where they break or dirty my carry on bag (not to mention having to take my laptop, etc on the plane with me and wrap it around in my coat)
3. Poor leg room
4. Loud
5. Vibrates
6. Bad temp control (too cold / too hot)

The Q400 is miles ahead of this abomination named the "Classic". Air Canada needs to rid itself of such old aircraft right away. If an ex Dash pilot hates is so much, how do you think passengers feel about it? I'm actually shocked that Canada's "legacy carrier" even allows such junks to have their name on it. If I had the choice between Encore or Porter, I'd choose them in a heartbeat over Jazz, simply because of the "Classic Crap 8".

That's how I really feel about it.
I’ll disagree on one point here. The Q400 has a similar crappy heating/cooling system as the 300. In winter at night with a large pax load either pax are to hot or pilots froze. It’s one or the other
I actually disagree on the ACMs in winter. On the 300/311, it is actually very easy to play with the GASP FAN (300) or FC FAN (311) and run the bleeds at 3/4 to MAX and have a nice warm 50deg cockpit duct and a crisp 21-22 deg cabin. It’s buried in the supplementary chapter of the AOM how to achieve proper cooling/heating... but then again Jazz doesn’t care about teaching systems knowledge anymore.
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