Classic Dash replacement??

[KenoraPilot]

It will be interesting as maybe this is why the company approached Jazz ALPA in Nov to start talks about "fleet renewal and medium/long term planning". I assumed it had to do with GGN 1900's and the 301s not being able to be extended. I can only imagine keeping the 311's going for as long as possible on the small super necessary dash routes and most likely more Q's? Reduce frequency and up the seat count with the Qs. We will see......only time will tell but the Jan equipment bid coming up will be extremely telling.

[HansDietrich]

The Dash 8-100/300 needs to be replaced ASAP. I didn't like it as a pilot and I like it even less as a paying passenger. Why you may ask:

1. Crap bin space, where I can't fit anything more than a coat.
2. Sky Check, where they break or dirty my carry on bag (not to mention having to take my laptop, etc on the plane with me and wrap it around in my coat)
3. Poor leg room
4. Loud
5. Vibrates
6. Bad temp control (too cold / too hot)

The Q400 is miles ahead of this abomination named the "Classic". Air Canada needs to rid itself of such old aircraft right away. If an ex Dash pilot hates is so much, how do you think passengers feel about it? I'm actually shocked that Canada's "legacy carrier" even allows such junks to have their name on it. If I had the choice between Encore or Porter, I'd choose them in a heartbeat over Jazz, simply because of the "Classic Crap 8".

That's how I really feel about it.

[rudder]

In an environment where the limiting factor is pilot availability, a low gauge - high frequency strategy is clearly not sustainable. Pilot work is both denominated and limited by hours not ASM’s.

AC has already abandoned some Express B1900 routes. Others have been upgraded to Dash 8’s. It is becoming obvious that 19/37/50 seat aircraft are no longer part of a viable long term commercial plan.

All Express route/equipment/schedule decisions are made by AC. Perhaps in a perfect world AC would like to continue to use the Dash 8’s. But a confluence of factors are seemingly removing that option from the table.

I would look for some indication of the future of the 50 seat jets as well.

[KenoraPilot]

The Dash 8-100/300 needs to be replaced ASAP. I didn't like it as a pilot and I like it even less as a paying passenger. Why you may ask:

1. Crap bin space, where I can't fit anything more than a coat.
2. Sky Check, where they break or dirty my carry on bag (not to mention having to take my laptop, etc on the plane with me and wrap it around in my coat)
3. Poor leg room
4. Loud
5. Vibrates
6. Bad temp control (too cold / too hot)

The Q400 is miles ahead of this abomination named the "Classic". Air Canada needs to rid itself of such old aircraft right away. If an ex Dash pilot hates is so much, how do you think passengers feel about it? I'm actually shocked that Canada's "legacy carrier" even allows such junks to have their name on it. If I had the choice between Encore or Porter, I'd choose them in a heartbeat over Jazz, simply because of the "Classic Crap 8".

That's how I really feel about it.

Thank goodness you quit Jazz! Wouldn’t want to subject you to any more pain and suffering. My god the Classic Dash 8 has given you some serious PTSD. I hope that one day you will recover from the pain inflicted by Jazz and the DH8. God speed and hope to see you one day recovered from the “classic crap 8 experience”

[KenoraPilot]

As to the CRJ200, they are all slated to be retired by 2025 I believe as well. Jazz for sure one day will be a Q & RJ operator. The Classic at the moment is too lucrative for AC & Jazz to want to get rid of. Cheap on fuel & all paid off in Jazz books. Plus the routes the DH8 serves usually is the highest cost seats to buy as a passenger.

[HansDietrich]

Thank goodness you quit Jazz! Wouldn’t want to subject you to any more pain and suffering. My god the Classic Dash 8 has given you some serious PTSD. I hope that one day you will recover from the pain inflicted by Jazz and the DH8. God speed and hope to see you one day recovered from the “classic crap 8 experience”

If you think a(n) (first world) airline, such as Air Canada, "VOTED #1 IN NORTH AMERICA... blah blah..." should still be flying 30+ year old airplanes that have more oil on them than paint, then you need to travel more "friend". Never mind what it did to me.

I didn't like that plane. Plain and simple. It's pathetic that AC customers / Star Alliance customers are subjected to it. I was honestly embarrassed to fly it. I felt like I was working for Buffalo Airways, but with a hat. The only thing missing was me on the wing of the -100, parked at Gate 101, with a mop in hand and a bucket of glycol, "gettin'er done" before my turn to Sudbury.

[HansDietrich]

...Plus the routes the DH8 serves usually is the highest cost seats to buy as a passenger...

Until Porter / Encore step in...

[PostmasterGeneral]

Thank goodness you quit Jazz! Wouldn’t want to subject you to any more pain and suffering. My god the Classic Dash 8 has given you some serious PTSD. I hope that one day you will recover from the pain inflicted by Jazz and the DH8. God speed and hope to see you one day recovered from the “classic crap 8 experience”

If you think a(n) (first world) airline, such as Air Canada, "VOTED #1 IN NORTH AMERICA... blah blah..." should still be flying 30+ year old airplanes that have more oil on them than paint, then you need to travel more "friend". Never mind what it did to me.

I didn't like that plane. Plain and simple. It's pathetic that AC customers / Star Alliance customers are subjected to it. I was honestly embarrassed to fly it. I felt like I was working for Buffalo Airways, but with a hat. The only thing missing was me on the wing of the -100, parked at Gate 101, with a mop in hand and a bucket of glycol, "gettin'er done" before my turn to Sudbury".

What are you flying now?

[fish4life]

...Plus the routes the DH8 serves usually is the highest cost seats to buy as a passenger...

Until Porter / Encore step in...

How did that work in YSB

[ant_321]

The Dash 8-100/300 needs to be replaced ASAP. I didn't like it as a pilot and I like it even less as a paying passenger. Why you may ask:

1. Crap bin space, where I can't fit anything more than a coat.
2. Sky Check, where they break or dirty my carry on bag (not to mention having to take my laptop, etc on the plane with me and wrap it around in my coat)
3. Poor leg room
4. Loud
5. Vibrates
6. Bad temp control (too cold / too hot)

The Q400 is miles ahead of this abomination named the "Classic". Air Canada needs to rid itself of such old aircraft right away. If an ex Dash pilot hates is so much, how do you think passengers feel about it? I'm actually shocked that Canada's "legacy carrier" even allows such junks to have their name on it. If I had the choice between Encore or Porter, I'd choose them in a heartbeat over Jazz, simply because of the "Classic Crap 8".

That's how I really feel about it.

You’re the only person I’ve heard of who flew the dash and hated it. Most guys love it. I’m assuming the dash isn’t shiny enough or big enough for your ego.

[HansDietrich]

The Dash 8-100/300 needs to be replaced ASAP. I didn't like it as a pilot and I like it even less as a paying passenger. Why you may ask:

1. Crap bin space, where I can't fit anything more than a coat.
2. Sky Check, where they break or dirty my carry on bag (not to mention having to take my laptop, etc on the plane with me and wrap it around in my coat)
3. Poor leg room
4. Loud
5. Vibrates
6. Bad temp control (too cold / too hot)

The Q400 is miles ahead of this abomination named the "Classic". Air Canada needs to rid itself of such old aircraft right away. If an ex Dash pilot hates is so much, how do you think passengers feel about it? I'm actually shocked that Canada's "legacy carrier" even allows such junks to have their name on it. If I had the choice between Encore or Porter, I'd choose them in a heartbeat over Jazz, simply because of the "Classic Crap 8".

That's how I really feel about it.

You’re the only person I’ve heard of who flew the dash and hated it. Most guys love it. I’m assuming the dash isn’t shiny enough or big enough for your ego.

It's not about my ego. It's an old plane. It's a plane that should've been retired a long time ago. The Q400 is a perfectly adequate aircraft. I would've loved to fly the Q400. Unfortunately Jazz freezes you on type for 4 years and I couldn't get off it, so I left... (that and other reasons... such as poor pay, etc. but that's a topic I've beaten to death here)

[KenoraPilot]

The Dash 8-100/300 needs to be replaced ASAP. I didn't like it as a pilot and I like it even less as a paying passenger. Why you may ask:

1. Crap bin space, where I can't fit anything more than a coat.
2. Sky Check, where they break or dirty my carry on bag (not to mention having to take my laptop, etc on the plane with me and wrap it around in my coat)
3. Poor leg room
4. Loud
5. Vibrates
6. Bad temp control (too cold / too hot)

The Q400 is miles ahead of this abomination named the "Classic". Air Canada needs to rid itself of such old aircraft right away. If an ex Dash pilot hates is so much, how do you think passengers feel about it? I'm actually shocked that Canada's "legacy carrier" even allows such junks to have their name on it. If I had the choice between Encore or Porter, I'd choose them in a heartbeat over Jazz, simply because of the "Classic Crap 8".

That's how I really feel about it.

You’re the only person I’ve heard of who flew the dash and hated it. Most guys love it. I’m assuming the dash isn’t shiny enough or big enough for your ego.

[KenoraPilot]

The Dash 8-100/300 needs to be replaced ASAP. I didn't like it as a pilot and I like it even less as a paying passenger. Why you may ask:

1. Crap bin space, where I can't fit anything more than a coat.
2. Sky Check, where they break or dirty my carry on bag (not to mention having to take my laptop, etc on the plane with me and wrap it around in my coat)
3. Poor leg room
4. Loud
5. Vibrates
6. Bad temp control (too cold / too hot)

The Q400 is miles ahead of this abomination named the "Classic". Air Canada needs to rid itself of such old aircraft right away. If an ex Dash pilot hates is so much, how do you think passengers feel about it? I'm actually shocked that Canada's "legacy carrier" even allows such junks to have their name on it. If I had the choice between Encore or Porter, I'd choose them in a heartbeat over Jazz, simply because of the "Classic Crap 8".

That's how I really feel about it.

You’re the only person I’ve heard of who flew the dash and hated it. Most guys love it. I’m assuming the dash isn’t shiny enough or big enough for your ego.

It's not about my ego. It's an old plane. It's a plane that should've been retired a long time ago. The Q400 is a perfectly adequate aircraft. I would've loved to fly the Q400. Unfortunately Jazz freezes you on type for 4 years and I couldn't get off it, so I left... (that and other reasons... such as poor pay, etc. but that's a topic I've beaten to death here)

what are you flying these days? You bash the 8 but what are you currently enjoying now?

[HansDietrich]

what are you flying these days? You bash the 8 but what are you currently enjoying now?

I'm flying corporate. It's not perfect, but I enjoy it a lot more than Jazz. The Citation I fly is much nicer, I have more time off to be with my wife and kids and I go to much nicer destinations. I'm much happier than I was at Jazz. I did enjoy the "anonymity" and job security there, but I couldn't stand flying that plane and its destinations. There is a time in a man's life, when his happiness is more important than the "status quo". I made the right decision. Of course, nothing's stopping me from going to other airlines, but for now, I like what I'm doing.

But, getting back on track with the topic at hand: "Classic Dash Replacement". I still stand by my comments and you know I'm right. This is not a plane that Air Canada needs to put forward. You can't make a good impression stepping off a 777 or 787 and getting on a -100 out of YYZ. It just doesn't look good, it doesn't fit, it's "Mikey Mouse" mate. It's 703 crap. It's Canadian North / Perimeter / Air Inuit / Air Creebec material, not AIR CANADA material. The Q400 is a perfect aircraft to replace the -100/-300.

I'm not sure if I've personally upset you, or you just don't care what your passengers think, but everything I experienced (as a pilot) aside, it's not an aircraft fit for Mainline. If you enjoy it, great, but don't try to sell it to me, or the public. It's not an attractive product anymore. It may have been back in the 90s, but not anymore.

[andy_mtl]

I have to agree with Hansdietrich.
I flew , to be exact , 1410 flights on the classic at Jazz.
While most the guys made it a blast and i had some serious great times, past the initial excitement i truly didnt enjoy the aircraft.

The summer you are sweating on the ground, the winter you are freezing.

If by chance you choose to climb out at prop 1050 , the poor passenger s ears are bleeding in the back.

Even with the syncrophaser on, most the times we had to manually sync the props to try making the best out of it.


The snags started piling up too.
I remember flying in the prairies over new years last year with a relatively new captain, with 7 Mels.


As it was mentioned above, the Q4 does a fine job in terms of performance and efficiency. The dh8 was great for what it was, but its time has come and it is time to move ti better options,as we have then availeable.
Andy

[KenoraPilot]

what are you flying these days? You bash the 8 but what are you currently enjoying now?

I'm flying corporate. It's not perfect, but I enjoy it a lot more than Jazz. The Citation I fly is much nicer, I have more time off to be with my wife and kids and I go to much nicer destinations. I'm much happier than I was at Jazz. I did enjoy the "anonymity" and job security there, but I couldn't stand flying that plane and its destinations. There is a time in a man's life, when his happiness is more important than the "status quo". I made the right decision. Of course, nothing's stopping me from going to other airlines, but for now, I like what I'm doing.

But, getting back on track with the topic at hand: "Classic Dash Replacement". I still stand by my comments and you know I'm right. This is not a plane that Air Canada needs to put forward. You can't make a good impression stepping off a 777 or 787 and getting on a -100 out of YYZ. It just doesn't look good, it doesn't fit, it's "Mikey Mouse" mate. It's 703 crap. It's Canadian North / Perimeter / Air Inuit / Air Creebec material, not AIR CANADA material. The Q400 is a perfect aircraft to replace the -100/-300.

I'm not sure if I've personally upset you, or you just don't care what your passengers think, but everything I experienced (as a pilot) aside, it's not an aircraft fit for Mainline. If you enjoy it, great, but don't try to sell it to me, or the public. It's not an attractive product anymore. It may have been back in the 90s, but not anymore.

I personally think it's a matter of opinion, yes people will dislike it. Others probably enjoy it. I remember flying the DH6 on floats and the passengers loved it regardless of the no AC/Pressurization and 25+ year airframe. Passengers also loved loved the B18, DH2/3 and those airframes are 40-60 years old! The one B18 we had in NWO was 70 years old and the people getting on it loved it! It stank, vibrated, cramped seats, one door, couldn't stand up in the cabin. The Otter was even worse smell and speed wise.

So I will agree that there is a huge difference between 777 service and DH8 service, but the reality of Canada is some destinations don't require a Q400. Encore had a really tough time in YSB because of this....hence why they pulled out and AC with the 37seat DH8-100 still operates 3/4 times daily. I personally would love to see a Q300NG, but for some people the DH8 is a valuable and beautiful airplane. (in the eye of the beholder)

So Hans i'll agree to disagree and agree that our view points are very different and I am glad you're on a nice citation. Life style is way more important than airplane I will agree with you 100%. After losing my forever career job I made the best decision and jumped in with both feet and am making the best experience I can. The experience I take from Jazz and the DH8 is 100% in my control

Happy New Year and keep the blue side up

[HansDietrich]

KenoraPilot,

Yeah. Happy New Year!

I'll agree with you. If they come up with a brand new "-100/-300NG" type of Dash, with better, quieter engines, better avionics, more bin space, I'd have no problem. It's not the size of the plane that matters. It's the age of it. It shows. Like the other gentleman said here. It's super cold in the winter and very warm in the summer. I remember flying out of YUL a few times in the winter and I was freezing on the -300. It just needs to go or replaced with a newer machine.

On a side note, I wonder how the new ATR-42-600 fares in comparison with the old ATR-42. It's the "updated" ATR we're all used to.

[C-GGGQ]

As a passenger on a brand new ATR 42 over the summer. Take off power was about as loud as a q400 in cruise and cruise power virtually could not be heard from inside the cabin so I'm all in favour of an ATR 42 fleet for jazz.

[fish4life]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thehin ... 7.ece/amp/

These were still blasting around the skies as recent as 2014, lots of MD-80’s as well. AC is hardly the only airline running old equipment around.

[yhz41]

As a passenger on a brand new ATR 42 over the summer. Take off power was about as loud as a q400 in cruise and cruise power virtually could not be heard from inside the cabin so I'm all in favour of an ATR 42 fleet for jazz.

I second this. But I also always feel a bit of nostalgia from the canadian regional days when I'm on a classic.