Classic Dash replacement??

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Julian.B
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by Julian.B »

KenoraPilot wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 10:02 am I expect Jazz to be a Q400 and EMB175-E2 operator exclusively once the CRJ's have hit their end. I expect Jazz will exist just to carry the spoke passengers to the hub. I don't expect AC to want to "code share" the 700+ flights done daily by Jazz to "code share". Just my 2 cents.
Not all of them, but many of the destinations served by the Dash -100/-300.
- North Bay
- Kingston
- Bathurst
- Sept Ile
- Mont Joli
- Val D'hor (I don't know how to spell it)
- etc.

Jazz will keep flying the Q400 but on "busier routes":
- Timmins
- Windsor
- London
- Sudbury
- Sault St. Marie
- Grand Prairie
- Fort Mac
- Victoria
- Kelowna

etc.

The rest would be flown by the Embraer (E1 or E2)
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notwhoyouthinkIam
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by notwhoyouthinkIam »

There's really no replacement for the -100 or -300.

There are some new build aircraft on the market (Cessna SkyCourrier, Viking Twotter) that fill the 1900's role, but nothing that I know of between 20 and 60 seats.
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KenoraPilot
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by KenoraPilot »

Julian.B wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:53 pm
KenoraPilot wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 10:02 am I expect Jazz to be a Q400 and EMB175-E2 operator exclusively once the CRJ's have hit their end. I expect Jazz will exist just to carry the spoke passengers to the hub. I don't expect AC to want to "code share" the 700+ flights done daily by Jazz to "code share". Just my 2 cents.
Not all of them, but many of the destinations served by the Dash -100/-300.
- North Bay
- Kingston
- Bathurst
- Sept Ile
- Mont Joli
- Val D'hor (I don't know how to spell it)
- etc.

Jazz will keep flying the Q400 but on "busier routes":
- Timmins
- Windsor
- London
- Sudbury
- Sault St. Marie
- Grand Prairie
- Fort Mac
- Victoria
- Kelowna

etc.

The rest would be flown by the Embraer (E1 or E2)


The entire Jazz DH8-100/300 fleet will be retired by the end of October 2021.
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goldeneagle
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by goldeneagle »

notwhoyouthinkIam wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:57 pm There are some new build aircraft on the market (Cessna SkyCourrier, Viking Twotter) that fill the 1900's role, but nothing that I know of between 20 and 60 seats.
With the minor issue that neither of those are pressurized, so useless on the west coast for replacing the 1900
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notwhoyouthinkIam
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by notwhoyouthinkIam »

goldeneagle wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 2:26 pm
notwhoyouthinkIam wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:57 pm There are some new build aircraft on the market (Cessna SkyCourrier, Viking Twotter) that fill the 1900's role, but nothing that I know of between 20 and 60 seats.
With the minor issue that neither of those are pressurized, so useless on the west coast for replacing the 1900
Edit: I missed your point completely when crafting my response. All of the aircraft that I list below appear to be pressurized.

Pacific Coastal does quite well for itself with B1900C/Ds and Saab 340s.

Central Mountain Air does well with the 1900s, Dash 8-100/300, and the Dornier 328 (prop).
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Julian.B
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by Julian.B »

KenoraPilot wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 2:25 pm
Julian.B wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:53 pm
KenoraPilot wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 10:02 am I expect Jazz to be a Q400 and EMB175-E2 operator exclusively once the CRJ's have hit their end. I expect Jazz will exist just to carry the spoke passengers to the hub. I don't expect AC to want to "code share" the 700+ flights done daily by Jazz to "code share". Just my 2 cents.
Not all of them, but many of the destinations served by the Dash -100/-300.
- North Bay
- Kingston
- Bathurst
- Sept Ile
- Mont Joli
- Val D'hor (I don't know how to spell it)
- etc.

Jazz will keep flying the Q400 but on "busier routes":
- Timmins
- Windsor
- London
- Sudbury
- Sault St. Marie
- Grand Prairie
- Fort Mac
- Victoria
- Kelowna

etc.

The rest would be flown by the Embraer (E1 or E2)


The entire Jazz DH8-100/300 fleet will be retired by the end of October 2021.
Indeed. These smaller markets (ex. Kingston) was served by the (Jazz) Dash 8-100/300. What I'm trying to say is that a 3rd party (code share) airline might end up doing this with their own Dash 8 classics (maybe PAL)?
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rudder
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by rudder »

Julian.B wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 5:50 pm
Indeed. These smaller markets (ex. Kingston) was served by the (Jazz) Dash 8-100/300. What I'm trying to say is that a 3rd party (code share) airline might end up doing this with their own Dash 8 classics (maybe PAL)?
ACPA scope clause allows domestic codeshare by CPA carriers only.

Domestic Interline agreements (non-codeshare) limited to maximum 23 seat aircraft only.
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by Julian.B »

rudder wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 6:52 pm
Julian.B wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 5:50 pm
Indeed. These smaller markets (ex. Kingston) was served by the (Jazz) Dash 8-100/300. What I'm trying to say is that a 3rd party (code share) airline might end up doing this with their own Dash 8 classics (maybe PAL)?
ACPA scope clause allows domestic codeshare by CPA carriers only.

Domestic Interline agreements (non-codeshare) limited to maximum 23 seat aircraft only.
Okay. So then who will AC contract out their flying?(to Mont Joli for example). There was a news release a while ago, when AC got the loan, saying they must either start up the old regional routes or work it out with 3rd party carriers to reintroduce them. Did I understand that incorrectly?
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by fish4life »

notwhoyouthinkIam wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:57 pm There's really no replacement for the -100 or -300.

There are some new build aircraft on the market (Cessna SkyCourrier, Viking Twotter) that fill the 1900's role, but nothing that I know of between 20 and 60 seats.
How many times does the still for sale brand new ATR 42 need to be brought up
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by notwhoyouthinkIam »

fish4life wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 8:06 pm
notwhoyouthinkIam wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:57 pm There's really no replacement for the -100 or -300.

There are some new build aircraft on the market (Cessna SkyCourrier, Viking Twotter) that fill the 1900's role, but nothing that I know of between 20 and 60 seats.
How many times does the still for sale brand new ATR 42 need to be brought up
It doesn't matter how many times it's brought up. I am currently discounting it on the fact that Jazz has rejected it as a possible replacement.

It is plausible that Jazz and Air Canada will revisit it, but considering that Air Canada has gone Boeing for every new aircraft over 150 seats for the past decade or so, I don't see them going Airbus/ATR soon.
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by fish4life »

notwhoyouthinkIam wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 8:12 pm
fish4life wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 8:06 pm
notwhoyouthinkIam wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 1:57 pm There's really no replacement for the -100 or -300.

There are some new build aircraft on the market (Cessna SkyCourrier, Viking Twotter) that fill the 1900's role, but nothing that I know of between 20 and 60 seats.
How many times does the still for sale brand new ATR 42 need to be brought up
It doesn't matter how many times it's brought up. I am currently discounting it on the fact that Jazz has rejected it as a possible replacement.

It is plausible that Jazz and Air Canada will revisit it, but considering that Air Canada has gone Boeing for every new aircraft over 150 seats for the past decade or so, I don't see them going Airbus/ATR soon.
Uh A220
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by notwhoyouthinkIam »

fish4life wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 8:39 pm
notwhoyouthinkIam wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 8:12 pm
fish4life wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 8:06 pm

How many times does the still for sale brand new ATR 42 need to be brought up
It doesn't matter how many times it's brought up. I am currently discounting it on the fact that Jazz has rejected it as a possible replacement.

It is plausible that Jazz and Air Canada will revisit it, but considering that Air Canada has gone Boeing for every new aircraft over 150 seats for the past decade or so, I don't see them going Airbus/ATR soon.
Uh A220
See the highlighted part of my comment.
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by rudder »

Julian.B wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 7:06 pm
rudder wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 6:52 pm
Julian.B wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 5:50 pm
Indeed. These smaller markets (ex. Kingston) was served by the (Jazz) Dash 8-100/300. What I'm trying to say is that a 3rd party (code share) airline might end up doing this with their own Dash 8 classics (maybe PAL)?
ACPA scope clause allows domestic codeshare by CPA carriers only.

Domestic Interline agreements (non-codeshare) limited to maximum 23 seat aircraft only.
Okay. So then who will AC contract out their flying?(to Mont Joli for example). There was a news release a while ago, when AC got the loan, saying they must either start up the old regional routes or work it out with 3rd party carriers to reintroduce them. Did I understand that incorrectly?
If you can decipher what you see below, then you will have your answer.

Sorry about the formatting (or lack thereof).


1.02 Scope All Pilot Positions and all flying performed by or on behalf of the Company or its Affiliates, including all flying utilizing the Company IATA designator code (AC or ACA) or future similar designator code will be occupied and performed by Air Canada Pilots exclusively in accordance with the terms and conditions of this agreement. Such Company flying will include, without limitation, all revenue, non-revenue, scheduled, unscheduled, passenger, cargo, placement, ferry, charter, scheduled charter, sports charter, training, maintenance test flights and publicity flights. The provisions of 1.02.01 do not apply to: Delivery flights of Air Canada aircraft where one crew member may be a pilot representing the vendor, lessor, lessee or purchaser of the aircraft. Maintenance Test flights where one or more crew members may be a pilot representing the manufacturer of the aircraft or systems being tested. Public Demonstration Flights (e.g. The Paris Air Show) where the local laws prohibit Air Canada Pilots from performing the flying. Charity flights (non-revenue) flown by Air Canada Pilots on a voluntary basis (e.g. Dreams Take Flight). The other exceptions agreed herein. 1.03 Definitions The following definitions apply for the purpose of A1: Air Canada (AC or ACA) or the Company means the combined operations of Air Canada and its Affiliates as they are currently constituted or as they may be constituted or replaced in the future. Air Canada Pilot means a Pilot who holds a position on the Air Canada Pilots System Seniority List as provided within this Collective Agreement. Affiliate means any entity incorporated in Canada or operating aircraft in Canada that controls the Company or that the Company controls and any Specialty Company. Force Majeure means, by way of example only and without limitation, events of the nature and scale which have a significant deleterious impact on the operation or finances of the Company or the market demand for its services, including: an Act of God, a strike or other labour disruption, legal or illegal, by employees employed by Air Canada or a CPA Carrier, a national emergency, the involuntary revocation of the Company’s operating certificates, a grounding of a number of the Company’s aircraft, a reduction in the Company’s operations resulting from a decrease in available fuel supply caused by either governmental action or by commercial suppliers being unable to meet the Company’s demands, the unavailability of aircraft scheduled for delivery, a severe downturn in the economy, which would include two consecutive quarters of decline in Canada’s GDP, the outbreak of war, a pandemic, a terrorist attack, or dramatic increases in the price of jet fuel, which would include an unexpected 30% year over year increase in the price. For clarity, force majeure does not include the price of fuel, except as described above, or other supplies, the price of aircraft, a downturn in the economy short of severe, the financial state of the Company, or the relative profitability or unprofitability of the Company’s then-current operations, unless any of these circumstances is related to a force majeure event as defined herein. Aircraft categories: Jet Aircraft means any aircraft utilizing a jet, turbojet, fan-jet, geared fan, ductless fan, or equivalent engine. Propeller Aircraft means any aircraft that uses propellers, however driven, to provide thrust. Propellers refer only to standard propellers as the term is commonly understood. Small Propeller Aircraft (SPA) means a propeller aircraft with a maximum certified seating capacity of 23 seats or less. Medium Propeller Aircraft (MPA) means a propeller aircraft configured with at least 23 seats but not more than eighty 80 seats. 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Maximum Certified Seating Capacity means the maximum seating capacity for which a hull size has been certified by any recognized aviation authority in the world. For greater certainty, aircraft in cargo or combination passenger/cargo configurations will assume an all passenger configuration to determine aircraft categories. Merger means any action that either directly or indirectly results in: the acquisition, or the right to acquire, by the Company or its Affiliates of more than 30% of the shares of another Canadian air carrier; the acquisition, or the right to acquire, by any entity or coalition of entities of more than 30% of the shares of the Company; the merger or amalgamation of all or part of the Company with another Canadian air carrier; any change of control of the Company: or any change to the Company’s corporate identity. 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Tier 3 Carrier means an air carrier that operates only SPA equipment when performing flying for or on behalf of the Company or utilizing the Company IATA designator code (AC or ACA). 1.04 Employment Security In order to provide employment security for the Air Canada Pilots, Air Canada agrees that no furlough of any Pilots will result from the following events: Current or future code share agreements with other air carriers or their affiliates; Current or future commercial agreements with other air carriers or their affiliates; The transfer of any MJA, NJA or WJA equipment to any entity which has, as of April 1st, 2011: (i) entered into a Capacity Purchase Agreement with Air Canada for domestic and/or Transborder air carrier operations or (ii) entered into a Transborder and/or International Codeshare or Joint Venture agreement with Air Canada. 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Block Hour Guarantee A total of 798,133 aircraft block hours at Air Canada and ACrouge combined are guaranteed for ACPA-represented Pilots every calendar year. Of the 798,133 block hours, 328,000 hours are guaranteed every calendar year for North American flying (i.e., flying not included in Overseas Operations defined in A12.04.04.01.01). To calculate the North American block hour guarantee, every block hour flown by a WJA within North America in a calendar year in excess of 22,000 will count as two block hours. These block hour guarantees do not apply in the case of Force Majeure. The guarantees will be suspended for the period of time during which the effects of the Force Majeure have an impact, such that the guarantees will be adjusted proportionately to reflect the period during which they have been suspended. 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ACPA has the right in its sole discretion, upon written notice to the Company within 60 days from the date of the Change of Control or Merger event and, subject to the requirements under the Canada Labour Code, to either: extend the duration of this Agreement for a period of one, two, or three years at ACPA’s option, beyond its original expiration with annual across-the-board wage, expense, benefit and MPU increases equivalent to the increase, if any, in the consumer price index plus 2% to be effective on the original expiration date and on each annual anniversary of the original expiration date thereafter; or, amend the expiration date of the Collective Agreement to an earlier date; such date will be no earlier than 60 days from the date of the aforementioned written notice to the Company. Air Canada mainline ASMs will be consolidated, if applicable, with the mainline ASMs of the other carrier and its affiliate(s). Air Canada’s Capacity Purchase Agreement ASMs will be consolidated, if applicable, with the other carrier’s and its affiliate’s Capacity Purchase Agreement or Regional Carrier ASMs; Any such new consolidated Mainline/Capacity Purchase Agreement ASM ratio will be maintained as the new Mainline/Capacity Purchase Agreement carrier ratio. If Air Canada is involved in a merger or acquisition and the pilots of the merged or acquired carrier are consolidated with Air Canada’s Pilots, then any aircraft of the merged carrier that are added to the mainline fleet shall not count as Mainline Baseline WJA, Mainline Baseline NJA, Mainline Growth WJA, Mainline Growth NJA, or for the Growth Ratios as defined in L74.01. 1.06 Divestiture and Successorship In the event of any divesture or spin-off of the fleet of Air Canada or part thereof, or of any part of Air Canada’s operations that has an effect on Air Canada’s flight operations, the aircraft categories, ASM ratios, codesharing ratios, fleet and employment security guarantees will continue to apply to Air Canada. Neither Air Canada nor its Affiliates will oppose any application by ACPA to secure and/or protect bargaining rights and successor rights for any Air Canada Pilots in the event that Air Canada sells, leases, transfers or otherwise divests itself of its fleet or part thereof or any part of its flight operations. 1.07 Single Employer Obligations / Separate Entities Air Canada will not initiate or support any common employer application before the Canada Industrial Relations Board with respect to another group of Pilots unless such application is supported by ACPA. 1.08 Codesharing General Codesharing means an agreement by which another airline places its IATA designator code or future similar designator code on an Air Canada flight and/or Air Canada agrees to place its IATA designator code or future similar designator code (AC or ACA) on the flights of another air carrier. For the purpose of this Collective Agreement, Codesharing does not include a Capacity Purchase Agreement. For the purposes of Codesharing and Joint Venture commercial agreements, Air Canada may place its AC or ACA code on other airlines’ flights denoted as AC* Codeshare flying subject to the provisions contained within this Collective Agreement. Air Canada will ensure that Code Sharing arrangements are entered into for the purpose of advancing the interests of Air Canada, including Air Canada Pilots. Air Canada will also ensure that Code Sharing arrangements are not, on balance, detrimental to Air Canada Pilots. Tier 2 Carriers shall only operate the aircraft described in A1.10.02.01.01 and A1.10.02.01.02 when performing codeshare flying outside of a CPA for or on behalf of Air Canada or its Affiliates. Codeshare on Routes within Canada With the exception of Tier 3 Carriers and Tier 2 CPA Carriers, on flights or routes wholly within Canada, and Northern/Arctic Codeshare arrangements as specified below, Air Canada and its Affiliates will not enter into any Codeshare arrangement: on flights or routes wholly within Canada; on flights or routes that begin and end in Canada with one or more stops in the United States of America; on flights or routes of an air carrier that are considered cabotage flights within Canada. Northern/Arctic Codeshare Given the unique operational conditions of Northern/Arctic flying, Air Canada or its Affiliates may enter into a Codeshare arrangement with one Northern/Arctic Air Operator subject to the following conditions: Air Canada will be limited to placing the Air Canada code on scheduled and charter flights or routes flown wholly north of the 60th parallel; and That the Northern/Arctic Air Operator places its code on Air Canada flights, or flights carrying the Air Canada designator code, connecting YOW and YEG to the following stations in Canada: YVR, YYC, YWG, YYZ, YUL, YHZ and YYT. Transborder Codesharing Transborder Codeshare 1.08.04.01.01 Air Canada agrees to adhere to the following provisions with respect to its Transborder Codeshare flying: 1.08.04.01.02 Air Canada may enter into Codesharing agreements with Tier 3 Carriers and Tier 2 CPA Carriers on transborder routes. 1.08.04.01.03 Subject to A1.08.04.02, for each new Codesharing partner not in a Joint Venture, the number of transborder ASMs to and from Canada operated by AC carrying the new partner’s code (OAL*) will be equal to or greater than the number of transborder ASMs to and from Canada operated by the new partner carrying the AC code (AC*). 1.08.04.01.04 It is recognized that the proposed Transborder Joint Venture referenced in A1.09.03 is not in place at the time of implementing this Collective Agreement. Until such time as the Transborder Joint Venture is implemented, the current Transborder codeshare with United Airlines will be measured using the International codeshare metrics as set out in A1.08.05.02- A1.08.05.05. 1.08.04.01.05 Further, until such time as the Transborder Joint Venture is implemented, in its codesharing with United Airlines, Air Canada will abide by the International Codeshare limitations, adapted as required, though modified such that only 5% fluctuations will apply to that transborder codesharing, rather that the 10% referenced in A1.08.05.04. Sixth Freedom Codesharing Agreements – YVR 1.08.04.02.01 For the purpose of increasing transborder feed to Air Canada’s international network through its YVR hub in exercise of its ICAO Sixth Freedom Right, Air Canada may enter into specific Sixth Freedom Codesharing agreements in which the transborder ASMs into and out of YVR operated by AC carrying the partner’s code (OAL*) may be less than the number of transborder ASMs into and out of YVR operated by the Codesharing partner carrying the AC code (AC) (“Sixth Freedom Codesharing Agreements – YVR”). 1.08.04.02.02 For greater certainty, under a Sixth Freedom Codesharing Agreement – YVR, the Codesharing partner’s flight is not available for sale as an AC*code flight unless the passenger connects to an AC international flight through YVR. 1.08.04.02.03 Air Canada will not reduce the annual frequency of consolidated Air Canada and ACrouge flights on any transborder routes into and out of YVR on which there is a codeshare under a Sixth Freedom Codesharing Agreement – YVR. The baseline for the number of transborder flights on the affected routes shall be measured using the 12 months prior to August 31, 2014, or the 12 months prior to the commencement of the Sixth Freedom Codesharing Agreement – YVR, whichever results in the greater number of flights. 1.08.04.02.04 Air Canada will advise ACPA of any Sixth Freedom Codesharing Agreement – YVR prior to its implementation. 1.08.04.02.05 Air Canada will provide ACPA with the annual number of Sixth Freedom Codesharing Agreement – YVR ASMS and passenger numbers by route. 1.08.04.02.06 Consistent with Air Canada’s desire to maintain and grow its YVR transborder market, Air Canada will conduct an annual review to determine, in its sole discretion, the commercial viability of operating increased Air Canada frequencies, or of introducing Air Canada service, on routes on which there is a codeshare under a Sixth Freedom Codesharing Agreement – YVR. International Codesharing Air Canada agrees to adhere to the following provisions with respect to its International Codeshare flying: Air Canada will maintain, as a minimum, the difference in International flying ASMs into and out of Canada between Air Canada’s operations and the operations of other carriers carrying the AC code (excluding Joint Venture flying by other carriers carrying the AC code). This will be measured based on the relevant ASMs over the three previous years and calculated at the end of each calendar year. The baseline will be the 2008 through 2010 calendar years. In recognition of the need to address operational and commercial requirements, the difference in ASMs may fluctuate from the baseline difference by up to 10%. Exceptions will be made for deviations from this limitation that result directly from capacity changes at Air Canada over which the Company has no control. In the event of an economic downturn requiring Air Canada to reduce the International flying that it operates, the Company may do so on the condition that there will be no increase in the International flying by other carriers carrying the AC code included in this measure until Air Canada has increased its ASMs back to the original baseline. 1.09 Joint Ventures A Joint Venture means a commercial agreement between airlines which extends commercial integration and the sharing of commercial benefits beyond traditional interline, Code Share and/or alliance relationships and where resources are coordinated with the objective that the sum of the Joint Venture partners’ performance will be greater than the individual airlines’ performance. This includes joint sales and marketing activities, the coordination of capacity planning and scheduling, the sharing of passenger revenues and other marketing and corporate initiatives, with the aim of achieving flight operations metal neutrality (as defined in the Joint Venture). ACPA acknowledges that Air Canada may enter into bilateral or multilateral commercial arrangements known as Joint Ventures. Air Canada and its Affiliates will not enter into a Joint Venture with respect to routes within Canada without the express written consent of ACPA. ACPA further recognizes that Air Canada is currently engaged in a Joint Venture with respect to transatlantic operations with Deutsche Lufthansa and United Airlines and that Air Canada is currently preparing to enter into a Joint Venture with respect to transborder operations with United Airlines. The Company agrees to consult with ACPA and share all relevant information with ACPA before entering into a new Joint Venture or including a new partner in a Joint Venture. The parties acknowledge that a Joint Venture shares relevant benefits from all present or future flight operations within the scope of the Joint Venture operated by any airline, affiliate or entity which any of the parties to the Joint Venture controls or is controlled by. Economic benefits from a Joint Venture are shared amongst the Joint Venture partners in a fair manner reflecting each airline’s contribution to the Joint Venture, including the contribution of Air Canada’s Pilots. In order to protect Air Canada’s interests and the interests of Air Canada’s Pilots: Air Canada agrees that it will not share its revenues from these Joint Ventures with its Code Share or Capacity Purchase Agreement partners or its subcontractors, affiliates or entities, who are not parties to the Joint Venture. As a direct result of Air Canada’s participation in a Joint Venture, there will not be a reduction of its ASMs that are encompassed within the Joint Venture, except in the case of a Joint Venture serving any region referred to in A1.09.07.03. Subject to A1.09.07.03, Air Canada will maintain, as a minimum, the difference in ASMs between Air Canada’s operations into and out of Canada within the scope of a Joint Venture and the operations of the other partners in that Joint Venture into and out of Canada within the scope of that Joint Venture. This will be measured based on the relevant ASMs over the three previous years and calculated at the end of each calendar year. The baseline will be the 2008 through 2010 calendar years for the current Transatlantic Joint Venture; or the three calendar years immediately preceding the commencement of any new Joint Venture. In the event of the inclusion of a new partner operating into and out of Canada in an existing joint venture, the baseline will be recalculated by adding the ASMs of the operations of the new partner into and out of Canada within the scope of that Joint Venture to the original baseline. In the event that Air Canada enters into a Joint Venture with a current Codesharing partner which does not operate any flights into and out of Canada and the partner commences operating flights into and out of Canada within the scope of the Joint Venture, the baseline minimum difference in ASMs will be adjusted for such flights, to a maximum of the ASMs associated with one such daily flight. Air Canada will not decrease the ASMs of its operation into and out of Canada within the scope of the Joint Venture as a result of the partner commencing to operate such flights. Subject to 1.09.07.03.03, Air Canada may, in respect of a Joint Venture serving the Asia, South Pacific or South America region, compensate for any differential in ASMs actually flown and the ASMs required under A1.09.07 (the “Differential”) by performing Equivalent Flying anywhere within the region served by the Joint Venture, subject to the 5% fluctuation permitted under A1.09.08. Air Canada or ACrouge must fly at least one frequency within the Joint Venture. 1.09.07.03.01 Definitions: 1. “Equivalent Flying” means combined Air Canada and ACrouge ASMs flown by WJA during the three-year measurement period in 1.09.07 so as to equal the Differential. 2. 3. 4. “Asia” means the region comprised of Brunei, Darussalam, Cambodia, China, Hong Kong SAR, Indonesia, Japan, Korea, Kazakhstan, Kyrgystan, Laos, Macau SAR, Malaysia, Mongolia, Myanmar, Philippines, Singapore, Taiwan, Tajikistan, Thailand, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, and Vietnam. “South America” means the region comprised of Argentina, Belize, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Ecuador, El Salvador, Falkland Islands, Guatemala, Honduras, Nicaragua, Paraguay, Panama, Peru, Saint Helena, Uruguay and Venezuela. “South Pacific” means the region comprised of Australia, Christmas Islands, Cocos (Keeling) Islands, Cook Islands, Fiji, French Polynesia, Kiribati, Nauru, New Caledonia, New Zealand, Niue, Norfolk Island, Papua New Guinea, Samoa, Solomon Islands, Tonga, Tuvalu, Vanuatu, Wallis and Futuna Island. 1.09.07.03.02 The baseline for measuring ASMs in the region served by the Joint Venture for the purpose of determining Equivalent Flying will be the three calendar years immediately preceding the commencement of the Joint Venture. 1.09.07.03.03 If a Differential results from Air Canada withdrawing one or more flight frequencies from YVR or YYZ within the scope of a Joint Venture, the Equivalent Flying must include replacement flight frequencies between the affected Base and the relevant region equivalent to the number of flight frequencies withdrawn. 1.09.07.03.04 Where Air Canada and the Joint Venture partner have, since the commencement of the Joint Venture, added an equal number of frequencies into and out of Canada within the Joint Venture, any Differential resulting from the Joint Venture partner operating higher gauge aircraft or longer stage lengths on the added frequencies will be deemed compliant with A1.09.07. In recognition of the need to address operational and commercial requirements, the relevant difference in ASMs may fluctuate from the baseline difference by up to 5%. Exceptions will be made for deviations from this limitation that result directly from capacity changes at Air Canada over which the Company has no control. In the event of an economic downturn requiring Air Canada to reduce flying or frequencies within the Joint Venture, the Company may do so on the condition that the partners will not increase flying or frequencies within the Joint Venture until Air Canada has increased its ASMs back to the original baseline. Air Canada further commits that in the event of aggressive capacity increases by a Joint Venture partner beyond what is warranted by the market based on reasonable commercial/financial decisions, Air Canada will make any and all reasonable efforts to respect the above commitment, while acting within the Joint Venture commercial agreement. The appropriate action to be taken by Air Canada would be governed by the Joint Venture agreement. Examples of possible action taken on behalf of Air Canada in the event of aggressive capacity increases may include, but are not limited to removing the excess capacity from the Joint Venture revenue sharing calculation or electing not to place Air Canada’s code on the increased capacity. 1.10 Capacity Purchase Agreement (CPA) Tier 2 and Tier 3 Carriers Notwithstanding A1.02, Air Canada may enter into Capacity Purchase Agreements (CPA) with Tier 2 and Tier 3 Carriers and its currently established CPA carrier in accordance with the following provisions: ACPA and Air Canada agree that all flying for or on behalf of the Company or its Affiliates utilizing the AC or ACA designator code is Air Canada flying. CPAs are not considered Codesharing or Joint Ventures for the purpose of this Collective Agreement. A CPA means a commercial agreement whereby: 1.10.01.03.01 A Tier 2 or Tier 3 Carrier performs flight operations for, or on behalf of, Air Canada or its Affiliates, and where the entire capacity (or a specified blocked space) of a specified fleet of aircraft is operated by the Tier 2 or Tier 3 Carrier, which will operate such flights using Air Canada’s designator code, operating on routes and according to schedules and terms of passenger carriage specified by Air Canada, that do not support the deployment of Air Canada mainline aircraft. 1.10.01.03.02 Air Canada determines routes and controls scheduling, sets ticket prices, determines seat inventories, revenue management actions, and performs marketing and advertising for the specified flights. Air Canada retains all revenue derived from the sale of seats and cargo services on the specified flights and pays the Tier 2/3 Carrier based on the operations provided. Such fees typically consist of certain variable components based on different metrics approximating the manner in which costs are incurred by the regional carrier, including block hours, flight hours, cycles, passengers carried and the number of aircraft covered by the CPA. Operation of Aircraft CPA carriers are limited to operating the Aircraft Categories specified below and subject to the terms and conditions specified below: 1.10.02.01.01 CPA carriers may operate any SPA, MPA or SJA equipment. 1.10.02.01.02 On an exceptional basis, and notwithstanding the Small Jets Settlement Agreement of Mr. Martin Teplitsky of July 12, 2004, and A1.10.02.01.01, CPA carriers may operate MJA configured at a maximum of 76 seats and/or MPA configured at a maximum of 80 seats inclusive of all classes (and no other MJA or larger jet equipment), at any one time for the purpose of performing flight operations for or on behalf of Air Canada or its Affiliates pursuant to a CPA or a codeshare, provided that: 1. 2. AC agrees to continue to operate at mainline and ACrouge combined a minimum of 86 – and, as of July 1, 2016, 90 – Airbus 319/320/321 aircraft or B737 Max aircraft or combination thereof, or equivalent NJA aircraft, including at least 61 NJA at mainline. Regional Replacement Aircraft flown on Regional Routes as defined in L74.01 are not counted as aircraft in the 90 NJA guarantee in A1.10.02.01.02.01. Air Canada will ensure that CPA carriers do not operate for, or on behalf of, Air Canada or its Affiliates any international flying, other than flights between Canada and the United States of America (excluding Hawaii) and flights between Canada and the Territorial Collectivity of Saint-Pierre-et-Miquelon. Air Canada will ensure that a minimum of 100 aircraft are flown by ACPArepresented Pilots at Air Canada and ACrouge combined for every 68 aircraft (excluding SPA) flown by CPA carriers combined for or on behalf of Air Canada or its Affiliates. To calculate the consolidated Air Canada and ACrouge fleet, one NJA will count as one aircraft and one WJA will count as two aircraft. As of August 31, 2014, the maximum combined number of MPA configured with a minimum of 70 seats and a maximum of 80 seats and MJA configured with a maximum of 76 seats that all CPA carriers combined may operate is 71. This limit will increase or decrease on a ratio of 1:1 aircraft for each NJA and on a ratio of 2:1 aircraft for each WJA added to or removed from the consolidated Air Canada and ACrouge baseline of 134 NJA and 63 WJA. The DH-100, DH-300 or CRJ-100/200 aircraft operated by CPA carriers as of August 31, 2014 may be replaced by MPA configured with 70 seats or more on a 2:1 ratio (e.g., 2 DH-300 = 1 additional MPA), These MPA are in addition to the MPA permitted under A1.10.03.02, to a maximum of 30. If DH-100, DH-300 or CRJ-100/200 aircraft are added back to the CPA fleet, the number of MPA shall decrease on a 2:1 ratio. Within the limit of A1.10.03.02, the number of MJA that may be operated by all CPA carriers combined is as follows: 1.10.03.04.01 As of August 31, 2014: 60 1.10.03.04.02 If the 2017 WJA Benchmark, as defined in the Memorandum of Agreement of September 30, 2014 is achieved, one additional MJA may be added for each CRJ-100/200 aircraft operated by CPA carriers as of August 31, 2014 that has been reduced, but not replaced by an MPA configured with 70 seats or more under A1.10.03.03, to a maximum of 80 MJA in the combined CPA If the 2020 WJA Benchmark, as defined in the Memorandum of Agreement of September 30, 2014, is achieved: 1. 2. 3. a maximum of 90 MJA may be operated in the combined CPA carrier fleet. One additional MJA may be added to the combined CPA carrier fleet of 90, to a maximum of 100, for every combination of one NJA and one-half WJA that is added to the consolidated Air Canada and ACrouge fleet beyond both the 90 NJA guarantee and the 95 WJA of the 2020 benchmark. The CPA carriers may together operate more than 100 MJA on condition that Air Canada is operating at least an equal number of both NJA and WJA in the consolidated Air Canada and ACrouge fleet. Example: To operate 101 MJA, Air Canada must operate at least 101 NJA and at least 101 WJA in its consolidated fleet; to operate 102 MJA, Air Canada must operate at least 102 NJA and at least 102 WJA, and so forth. 1.11 Specialty Companies A Specialty Company is any Affiliate of the Company dedicated to air carrier operations within a narrower segment of the travel market than that in which Air Canada operates, such as air cargo, leisure market, low cost carrier or charter operations. The Company or its Affiliates will not create or otherwise form any Specialty Company without the express written consent of ACPA. 1.12 Wet Leasing Wet Lease means the lease, contracting in or subcontracting in of an aircraft with Pilot crew. Wet Leasing will be utilized by the Company and/or Specialty Company only in cases of a need for service to the public of a temporary nature where the Company and/or a Specialty Company is unable to provide that service with Air Canada Pilots. The Company may elect to enter into a short term Wet Leasing arrangement with a duration of less than 30 days. The Company and/or Specialty Company and ACPA will mutually agree to a method of distributing the resulting Wet Lease pay credits. Wet Lease pay credits will not be Flight Time limiting. Wet Leasing for 30 days or more must be approved by ACPA. In the event of a Wet Lease for 30 days or more, the Company will provide compensation in accordance with the following: An average crewing requirement for the wet leased aircraft will be determined according to the stage length of the flights and the augmentation rules in this Collective Agreement. The appropriate comparator aircraft within the Collective Agreement will be determined. In the event an exact comparator is not in the Collective Agreement, the next smallest aircraft in the agreement will be used. The number of wet lease flight hours will be determined based on the speed for the comparator aircraft in the mileage pay provisions of this Collective Agreement. The hourly crew rate will be the pay rate for the average crewing requirement using the pay rates for the comparator aircraft calculated at night rates. The total compensation for the wet lease will be wet lease flight hours times the hourly crew rate. The wet lease compensation will be calculated on a monthly basis and will be provided to ACPA to be divided amongst Air Canada Pilots that were active in that month. 1.13 Franchise Arrangements The Company will not enter into franchise arrangements with another air carrier on flights originating from Canada or with a final destination in Canada without the consent of ACPA. 1.14 Pilot Crew Interchange The Company will not permit the use of Air Canada Pilots by another air carrier to fly an aircraft operated by the other air carrier; or the use of Pilots of another air carrier by Air Canada to fly an aircraft operated by Air Canada without the consent of ACPA. 1.15 Realignment of Routes and Aircraft Purchase Within 15 days of the decision by the Company or its’ Affiliates or a Specialty Company to purchase, lease, park, or sell aircraft, or to realign routes presently operated, whether by the addition or deletion of routes or segments of routes, the Company will meet with ACPA for the purpose of discussing any conditions related to such realignment. 1.16 Scope Committee and Information It is understood that ACPA requires information in order for it to track the overall effect that Codesharing, Capacity Purchase Agreement and Joint Venture arrangements have on Air Canada Pilots. Furthermore, Air Canada recognizes the important impact that these arrangements have on the career of Air Canada Pilots. Consequently, it is in both parties’ mutual interest to exchange information and discuss issues of mutual concern related to these arrangements. The Company and ACPA agree to maintain a joint Scope sub-committee for the purpose of exchanging such information and discussing such issues. Such information will be exchanged at joint Scope sub-committee Meetings. The parties will schedule meetings on a quarterly basis or as agreed by the joint Scope subcommittee. As a result, the Company will provide ACPA with full written disclosure of the following information covering all commercial arrangements: All present flights and frequencies. ASMs by flight segment. ATMs by flight segment. All flight segments where commercial arrangements are in effect, showing the combined number of ASMs and RTMs which are available, broken down into frequencies operated by Air Canada and its’ Affiliates and frequencies operated by the partner airline. On the request of the Scope Committee, Air Canada shall provide once annually or upon reasonable request information on the number of aircraft by type in operation, heavy maintenance, spares, in Jetz operations, and on order, and delivery and retirement schedules for Mainline, ACrouge and Regional Replacement Flying fleets. On the request of the Scope Committee, Air Canada shall provide once annually or upon reasonable request the monthly frequencies on routes served by CPA carriers and, if applicable, Mainline and ACrouge frequencies on such CPA routes. Any other information that is requested by ACPA and can be shown to be necessary to monitor the impact of these arrangements on Air Canada Pilots. The Company will provide ACPA with updates of the above information on a quarterly basis by the 15th of February, May, August, and November of each year. It is acknowledged that this commercial information is of a highly sensitive and competitive nature and accordingly, ACPA agrees that any such information will not be disclosed to any persons other than the MEC or Scope Committee members. 1.17 Interpretation The provisions of A1 apply at all times and in all cases unless otherwise mutually agreed between the parties and will be interpreted in accordance with the following: Nothing in the provisions of A1 will be interpreted to cover transactions (including mergers, acquisitions, divestitures, change of ownership or control) that do not affect or are not likely to affect the Air Canada Pilots. Statutory requirements will supersede any provisions contained in A1 that are contrary to such statutory requirements.
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Julian.B
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by Julian.B »

rudder wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 7:35 am
If you can decipher what you see below, then you will have your answer.

Sorry about the formatting (or lack thereof).
Thanks for the post. I did read it. I don't speak "lawyer", but I got the general idea.
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GoinVertical
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by GoinVertical »

« Notre entente interligne avec Air Canada et WestJet permet maintenant aux gens des régions de la province de pouvoir se promener à travers tout le pays », ajoute le directeur des ventes de PAL Airlines.
Translation:
"Our interline agreement with Air Canada and WestJet now allows people in regions of the province to be able to travel across the country," adds the sales manager of PAL Airlines.
"PAX - PAL lance son service vers les Îles-de-la-Madeleine" https://nouvelles.paxeditions.com/nouve ... newsletter
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Big Pistons Forever
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by Big Pistons Forever »

It is an interesting question. Many communities don't have enough traffic to support a Q 400. Just saying that those routes will be taken over by a 3rd tier operator doesn't change the fact that they need a 30 seatish airplane and the feedstock of those airplanes is drying up as they cycle and time out.

On the other hand back in the day PWA flew 737's to Watson Lake, Port Hardy, Quesnel etc etc on milk runs. Maybe this is one of those back to the future moments.....
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goldeneagle
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by goldeneagle »

Big Pistons Forever wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:33 am On the other hand back in the day PWA flew 737's to Watson Lake, Port Hardy, Quesnel etc etc on milk runs. Maybe this is one of those back to the future moments.....
I rode some of those a number of times back in the day. Vancouver to Dawson Creek involved stops in Prince George and Ft St John on the way. I remember once riding Prince George to Edmonton, stops in Ft St John and Dawson Creek on the way. Launching out of YXJ they came on the PA and said there was a problem getting IFR clearances for the leg to YDQ so we would take the scenic route. 737 launched and went 'IFR' the old school way, I Follow Roads and we proceeded to Dawson Creek following the hiway at a thousand feet.

Times have changed, cant imagine any operation doing that today.
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Julian.B
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by Julian.B »

I deadheaded on one of the Dash 8 300s the other day. Oh man... Air Canada needs to step up its game. That airplane is not worthy of "The Best Airline in North America". The bins were small, (I thought they changed them) and that planes rattles and shakes worse than a 1992 Renault Twingo. What are they thinking? Eastern European carriers have better turboprops than Canada. Then again, why am I surprised? We fly B737-200s here... in 2021.

They need to go, "like 5 years ago" need to go.
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Inverted2
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by Inverted2 »

They’re gone in a matter of months. It’s bittersweet for me. I loved flying them all over Canada but they are getting old and tired and they have fallen way behind on upkeep.
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Let’s Go Brandon
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Re: Classic Dash replacement??

Post by genetic jack hammer »

I was speaking with our YYZ Capt rep last week. For now, it looks like AC wants to keep 5 -300's between YYZ and YUL. We'll see if that plan sticks....
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