17 year TA?

[altiplano]

There is no rush... we have an existing agreement to 2025.

Absolutely.

Anyone scared of Rovinescu won't have to worry about his wrath in 2025 anyway. I don't think he has 6 more years in him as CEO... And other deals will have come and moved on by then.

GGN is cooked, that's a certainty.

Cutting off your nose to spite your face and starting an RJ program at SKY, or not hiring to mainline from Jazz, or not growing the feed you need, because someone finally called BS on fear tactics and a 16 year, sub-inflation contract (who does that? 16 years!) ... that's not going to happen... They'll sharpen their pencil.

Remember the Aimia (aeroplan) deal and Rovinescu, with his bank consortium sharks?
They told the Aimia group in a Bay Street meeting:
"Enough! The offer is $250 million, you have 20 minutes, take it or leave it."

Problem was Aimia are sharks too, and they walked out. And they had no leverage. Their contract with AC was to expire next year and they had what, a deal with Porter or Flair? They would implode.

What did they get? $450 million + a bunch of other little treats. $200million plus premium on the so called final offer... 80% more..

We on the other hand get in the pool with the sharks and get scared, and it isn't always comfortable, our leaders think they're equals, partners with the sharks... but the sharks are only looking out for themselves - not doing you any favours. Lock you down for 17 years... give me a break! 10 was ridiculous enough!

Good luck!

[groundpilot]

.

[groundpilot]

There is no rush... we have an existing agreement to 2025.

Absolutely.

Anyone scared of Rovinescu won't have to worry about his wrath in 2025 anyway. I don't think he has 6 more years in him as CEO... And other deals will have come and moved on by then.

GGN is cooked, that's a certainty.

Cutting off your nose to spite your face and starting an RJ program at SKY, or not hiring to mainline from Jazz, or not growing the feed you need, because someone finally called BS on fear tactics and a 16 year, sub-inflation contract (who does that? 16 years!) ... that's not going to happen... They'll sharpen their pencil.

Remember the Aimia (aeroplan) deal and Rovinescu, with his bank consortium sharks?
They told the Aimia group in a Bay Street meeting:
"Enough! The offer is $250 million, you have 20 minutes, take it or leave it."

Problem was Aimia are sharks too, and they walked out. And they had no leverage. Their contract with AC was to expire next year and they had what, a deal with Porter or Flair? They would implode.

What did they get? $450 million + a bunch of other little treats. $200million plus premium on the so called final offer... 80% more..

We on the other hand get in the pool with the sharks and get scared, and it isn't always comfortable, our leaders think they're equals, partners with the sharks... but the sharks are only looking out for themselves - not doing you any favours. Lock you down for 17 years... give me a break! 10 was ridiculous enough!

Good luck!

I finally agree with you on something.

[Stu Pidasso]

I got a call last night from a young Pilot that I did some mentoring with, he has been with Jazz just under a year. I tried to read all I could on this TA, he sent me the gory details. My take (not that you asked, but I have done most jobs within the Pilots Association,) is the guy pulling the strings sits at the head of the table at AC. Anyone who doesn't think he controls Jazz's destiny is gravely mistaken. There is plenty to dislike about this TA, who would have ever guessed Pilots would consider a 17 year Collective Agreement.

Starting pay is embarrassing, however times have changed and the majority of newhires are right out of college. Starting pay for an articling Lawyer, CA (now CPA,) Engineer are not a whole lot better. There is no Pilot shortage at AC or Jazz, SERIOUS experience shortage but that is another story. There is a massive Pilot Shortage at the General Aviation level. I would suspect that if the Big Boss doesn't get his way he will turn to Sky Regional and get even, that is simply my opinion having watched how he handles Labour issues. Jazz has been turned into the AC Farm Team, the career (senior) crowd won't be around much longer and the Junior guys will come to AC. Making the term of the contract academic. The unfortunate side is Jazz will no longer be a career Airline, which is by design keeping the Pilot Labour costs down.


I have no idea why Georgian is the big winner here, someone must have pictures. Terrible little mismanaged POS Airline that no one would miss. Tough decision, my advice is get off the forums and call your MEC, go to road shows and get the facts before you vote. This is a career deciding move.

Cheers

[altiplano]

Absolutely.

Anyone scared of Rovinescu won't have to worry about his wrath in 2025 anyway. I don't think he has 6 more years in him as CEO... And other deals will have come and moved on by then.

GGN is cooked, that's a certainty.

Cutting off your nose to spite your face and starting an RJ program at SKY, or not hiring to mainline from Jazz, or not growing the feed you need, because someone finally called BS on fear tactics and a 16 year, sub-inflation contract (who does that? 16 years!) ... that's not going to happen... They'll sharpen their pencil.

Remember the Aimia (aeroplan) deal and Rovinescu, with his bank consortium sharks?
They told the Aimia group in a Bay Street meeting:
"Enough! The offer is $250 million, you have 20 minutes, take it or leave it."

Problem was Aimia are sharks too, and they walked out. And they had no leverage. Their contract with AC was to expire next year and they had what, a deal with Porter or Flair? They would implode.

What did they get? $450 million + a bunch of other little treats. $200million plus premium on the so called final offer... 80% more..

We on the other hand get in the pool with the sharks and get scared, and it isn't always comfortable, our leaders think they're equals, partners with the sharks... but the sharks are only looking out for themselves - not doing you any favours. Lock you down for 17 years... give me a break! 10 was ridiculous enough!

Good luck!

I finally agree with you on something.

I don't know what other you disagree with, give it time and you'll come around I'm sure!

[TheStig]

I can see where this deal leaves a bad taste in your mouth. It's a small carrot delivered by someone holding a big stick. Same play book as we've seen for the last 5 years, a bunch of closed door negots with an MEC bound to NDA's who are now going to sell a pilot group on a deal where, at most, they've been able to massage a few items.

Reading through this site and talking with friends the 17 year term is either too long or provides a large measure of stability. For someone looking to make a career at Jazz the end of the CPA would always hang over your head. Airlines are no different, what Air Canada craves is stability. Which almost seems crazy in an industry where so many factors are out of a businesses control; gas prices, geopolitics, interest rates, currency fluctuations, weather, airport authorities, some unknown aircraft design flaw, terrorism to name just a few. What executives can do is keep their own house in order. Air Canada is not about to buy aircraft for a subsidiary with out the assurance of labour stability.

PML 1.0 was designed to reduce the payroll at Jazz, this one seems different. I'd be curious to find out what language is contained in the new TA. AC's Flight Ops management has stated they want to maintain an 80% flow from the connectors with the other 20% open to pilots from the RCAF, and other airlines (WJ,WJe, SW, Transat). Pilots from the connectors are the best fit, they know how the company works, they want to help pilots build prosperous careers within the AC family. From all appearances AC's Flight Ops leadership is being run by Pilots again. With that said, Flt Ops still doesn't run the business and there is no replacement contractual language to prevent any notion of unfairness.

All the best to everyone at Jazz, I hope you get a chance to listen to or attend the presentations and make an informed choice. I know there can be some heated discussions about Tentative Agreements in the flight deck, some things are best left to for the post flight bevies, fly safe in this nasty weather. See you all on the line.

[dh89]

I would like to remind my fellow peers that you are in as good a position to negotiate for better terms as ever. We in Canada have become the rock bottom of the industry when it comes to compensation. When the AC directors and board decide to eliminate one carrier’s contract and give the fleet to chorus, along with taking a 10% stake in the company, it is obvious that they want the company to growth. Otherwise they wouldnt do it. The whole talk of eliminating jazz is nothing but fear tactics to lock us up to a crap contract for 17 years. Who knows what the cost of living will be during that time. Sure has increased by more than the 2%!
I really hope everyone votes with the thought of not just themselves; as well as those behind them. Not all of us have ambitions of going to mainline. There is a massive pilot shortage and there is no way that another carrier can hire enough pilots to cover our 700+ flights a day. If anything they would have to hire former jazz guys/gals. I also hope we can have the georgian pilots join us without any harm to our seniority while still providing a good workplace for them after working for such an operator.
When we crunch the numbers, pilot wages amount to much less than 1% of an airline’s bill. We need a piece of the pie.
As for the flowthrough for AC, the numbers will be the same as the ratio is already there atm going into air canada.
Just my 2 cents. I hope everyone gets what they want, you’re all worth your weight and skills.

[proper]

Says the 4 post wonder...

[blueskiessabove]

If this doesnt pass, Jazz will be in trouble.

Will get more if it's turned down, AC is scared that's why there coming at us with a 17 year contract. Nobody offers that long of a contract if there not worried about pilots. Wait why not lock it in for 17 years! LOL

[proper]

Or..... Six years to build up competitors, either way we will see what happens. If the result is No... I think the silence will be deafening for years to come.

[V1Vr]

If this doesnt pass, Jazz will be in trouble.

Will get more if it's turned down, AC is scared that's why there coming at us with a 17 year contract. Nobody offers that long of a contract if there not worried about pilots. Wait why not lock it in for 17 years! LOL

Doubt it.

Curious, when do you retire? I think I know who you are and if I'm right you stand to lose nothing if this is voted down.

[blueskiessabove]

If this doesnt pass, Jazz will be in trouble.

Will get more if it's turned down, AC is scared that's why there coming at us with a 17 year contract. Nobody offers that long of a contract if there not worried about pilots. Wait why not lock it in for 17 years! LOL

Doubt it.

Curious, when do you retire? I think I know who you are and if I'm right you stand to lose nothing if this is voted down.

I'm younger one at Jazz but all you kids that think this is good are very naive and in for a rude awaking throughout your career. Old guys wouldn't be on avcanada lol

[blueskiessabove]

If this doesnt pass, Jazz will be in trouble.

Will get more if it's turned down, AC is scared that's why there coming at us with a 17 year contract. Nobody offers that long of a contract if there not worried about pilots. Wait why not lock it in for 17 years! LOL

Doubt it.

Curious, when do you retire? I think I know who you are and if I'm right you stand to lose nothing if this is voted down.

It's better to be the bigger person but karma will come to play. And I think I know who this new elected LEC is have fun.

[blueskiessabove]

Just So People Know!

I stand to inform all my fellow pilots who could not attend. I went to multiple MEC Negotiating Committee YUL, YVR meetings to see what was offered. I was open minded thinking people have the best intentions( F.Y.I. I think everyone felt like the negotiating committee was a bunch of snakes). I had a lot of faith in our negotiating committee. I asked all questions concerning all our groups and the same response I got from all the reps was we tried our best (For me this is unacceptable). We pay our dues and these fat asses abuse all our premiums to there benefits to see if they can convince us new hires. I used to believe people cared but now thats lost.
This contract and reading the comments let me know alot of the new hires with there own motives only care for there own benefit and it disgust all of us but im the only one who has the balls to say it so """""""""" all you people that vote yes, you are the reason this industry sucks.

[av8ts]

Has anyone else started skipping past blueskiesabove crazy rants? Or just me?

Still on the fence, however I’m leaning yes cause the no’s are starting to appear more irrational

[proper]

Yup...

He offers no plan....
Abundantly clear when he had the mic in YUL.

[V1Vr]

Will get more if it's turned down, AC is scared that's why there coming at us with a 17 year contract. Nobody offers that long of a contract if there not worried about pilots. Wait why not lock it in for 17 years! LOL

Doubt it.

Curious, when do you retire? I think I know who you are and if I'm right you stand to lose nothing if this is voted down.

It's better to be the bigger person but karma will come to play. And I think I know who this new elected LEC is have fun.

Thanks for the nice PM.

I'm amazed you have a vote

Title of the PM "Shitty FO"

[LtDan]

Yup...

He offers no plan....
Abundantly clear when he had the mic in YUL.

His "speech" in YYC was an embarrassment to himself and anyone he represents. His whole nonsensical rant about the AC medical and the exchange/wild accusations he made? Way too far.. the exchange that followed was by far the most awkward and socially painful moments Ive experienced as any sort of professional. Brian gave a great speech about unity and working together that really resonated with me, and perhaps a few others.. so I suppose it explains why DC voted against him as well. It's a train wreck to watch. Please don't ask me how I really feel lol

[blueskiessabove]

Doubt it.

Curious, when do you retire? I think I know who you are and if I'm right you stand to lose nothing if this is voted down.

It's better to be the bigger person but karma will come to play. And I think I know who this new elected LEC is have fun.

Another Union driver lol such a sad state!

Thanks for the nice PM.

I'm amazed you have a vote

Title of the PM "Shitty FO"

[blueskiessabove]

Doubt it.

Curious, when do you retire? I think I know who you are and if I'm right you stand to lose nothing if this is voted down.

It's better to be the bigger person but karma will come to play. And I think I know who this new elected LEC is have fun.

Another Union driver lol such a sad state!

Thanks for the nice PM.

I'm amazed you have a vote

Title of the PM "Shitty FO"