17 year TA?

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V1Vr
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by V1Vr » Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:07 am

What a crock of shit.

GGN really trying hard to muddy the waters.

Let's make it clear.

You are offered a job at Jazz.

Before your effective date, you QUIT your job at GGN.

GGN has absolutely zero control over who gets to leave and when they leave.

If you think for a second that staying to fly an unbranded CRJ or 1900 will let it go to AC faster, I have a bridge to sell you.
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V1Vr
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by V1Vr » Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:13 am

There will be no deferred seniority. I have no idea where they heard that or why they are lying so much.

You put you name on the list, then you are awarded a position. You will be given an effective date and that's when you start. It's a one time offer.

GGN management has no control over who comes and when they come.

If you think you have a better shot at AC via GGN after the CPA you are wrong.

60% hiring will come from Jazz, from the the merged list... In seniority.

EVERYONE should put their name down. If at the time you effective day comes, which could be as far as fall and you've found another job then you can always decline.

But it will be a one time offer, this week.. to join Jazz.
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Jettime3
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by Jettime3 » Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:21 am

V1Vr wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:07 am
What a crock of shit.

GGN really trying hard to muddy the waters.

Let's make it clear.

You are offered a job at Jazz.

Before your effective date, you QUIT your job at GGN.

GGN has absolutely zero control over who gets to leave and when they leave.

If you think for a second that staying to fly an unbranded CRJ or 1900 will let it go to AC faster, I have a bridge to sell you.
Thank you man. I want all the GGN pilots to know they are lying to us. And your post clarifies it . In a nutshell . I'm calling ALPA this afternoon and asking if they can take a look at the GGN memo and send their own memo to the GGN pilots because the manipulation never ends.
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47north
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by 47north » Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:21 am

Jettime3 wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:58 am
This is what they sent to us.
Interesting the games they are playing with you. Rest assured the same BS won’t happen at Jazz.

I understand one of the reasons AC, Jazz and ALPA agreed to integrate the Ggn Pilots is the need to allow for a smooth transition. That’s the only reason there would be a delay in bringing you guys over if that is your choice.

Bottom line is Ggn is toast and if the management there doesn’t recognize this then they are delusional. Yes they might morph into a charter carrier. Who knows maybe a Westjet link carrier - although highly doubtful there. Outside of that there is little to no opportunity to grow their business. Even if AC would entertain allowing them to bid on 50 seat work and lower, Jazz has the first right of refusal and you can bet we will be very aggressive to keeping that work in-house.

If were anyone at Ggn, I would put my name on the Jazz list. It guarantees you a position based on your DOH at Ggn which isn’t a bad deal. I wouldn’t allow myself to played by Ggn on the PMA to AC. Worst that happens is you stay at Jazz awhile until your number comes up for AC. With a guaranteed 90% acceptance rate for Jazz pilots flowing, I say those are you best odds to get to AC is desired.

I would also send this communication directly to ALPA. I am quite certain they will fight to put a stop to this BS. Make sure you send it to ALPA national too.

After all the shit you guys have had to put up with over there, you deserve a break. For those that are coming over welcome aboard.
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V1Vr
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by V1Vr » Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:25 am

Jettime3 wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:21 am
V1Vr wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:07 am
What a crock of shit.

GGN really trying hard to muddy the waters.

Let's make it clear.

You are offered a job at Jazz.

Before your effective date, you QUIT your job at GGN.

GGN has absolutely zero control over who gets to leave and when they leave.

If you think for a second that staying to fly an unbranded CRJ or 1900 will let it go to AC faster, I have a bridge to sell you.
Thank you man. I want all the GGN pilots to know they are lying to us. And your post clarifies it . In a nutshell . I'm calling ALPA this afternoon and asking if they can take a look at the GGN memo and send their own memo to the GGN pilots because the manipulation never ends.
I'm sure Jim will come out with a memo shortly explaining the full process. It's all going to happen very quickly and listen to your union and Jazz, not your GGN management as they do not have your best interests at heart
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Inverted2
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by Inverted2 » Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:28 am

Get out of that shithole company as soon as you can. You will be treated much better at Jazz. A leopard can't change its spots. GGN management knows they will be facing a mass exodus and these games are what they're known for. Come on over!
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Jettime3
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by Jettime3 » Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:32 am

47north wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:21 am
Jettime3 wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:58 am
This is what they sent to us.
Interesting the games they are playing with you. Rest assured the same BS won’t happen at Jazz.

I understand one of the reasons AC, Jazz and ALPA agreed to integrate the Ggn Pilots is the need to allow for a smooth transition. That’s the only reason there would be a delay in bringing you guys over if that is your choice.

Bottom line is Ggn is toast and if the management there doesn’t recognize this then they are delusional. Yes they might morph into a charter carrier. Who knows maybe a Westjet link carrier - although highly doubtful there. Outside of that there is little to no opportunity to grow their business. Even if AC would entertain allowing them to bid on 50 seat work and lower, Jazz has the first right of refusal and you can bet we will be very aggressive to keeping that work in-house.

If were anyone at Ggn, I would put my name on the Jazz list. It guarantees you a position based on your DOH at Ggn which isn’t a bad deal. I wouldn’t allow myself to played by Ggn on the PMA to AC. Worst that happens is you stay at Jazz awhile until your number comes up for AC. With a guaranteed 90% acceptance rate for Jazz pilots flowing, I say those are you best odds to get to AC is desired.

I would also send this communication directly to ALPA. I am quite certain they will fight to put a stop to this BS. Make sure you send it to ALPA national too.

After all the shit you guys have had to put up with over there, you deserve a break. For those that are coming over welcome aboard.
Thank you so much. Now you can see how they twist and manipulate us . I cannot wait to go to Jazz and I do not even care about AC mainline. We need a new start in a safe , respectful environment . I hope ALPA can shut this GGN memo down pronto. There are lots of guys and gals who believe it . Especially the newer pilots. Its quite sad that GGN is playing with futures just to try to keep the sinking ship afloat for a bit longer.
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V1Vr
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by V1Vr » Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:34 am

Also, you won't have until the bid closes to put your name on the list. You need to put your name on the list by the deadline Jazz imposes which will be BEFORE the bid is released since the bid will need to be built with the extra positions of those GGN pilots who want to come over.

Not sure what backwards thinking made GGN management think you can add yourself to a bid after it's already started.

More lies. Add them to the list.
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V1Vr
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by V1Vr » Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:43 am

The way this is all gonna to work I fully expect people from GGN will get their effective date at Jazz but since they then will be on the Jazz seniority list at that point they'll be off to AC via the new hiring process through Jazz before even starting at Jazz. That's the beauty of seniority

Holy run on sentence.
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Last edited by V1Vr on Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

Dizzy D
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by Dizzy D » Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:45 am

V1Vr wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:06 pm
[quote="Dizzy D" post_id=<a href="tel:1067785">1067785</a> time=<a href="tel:1548982493">1548982493</a> user_id=38954]
We had a great chance to have solid Jazz fella in charge of Alpa Canada but two LEC Representatives at Jazz felt a Westjet pilot who has his application in at AC was a better choice.
It was definitely time for change at the Canada Board.
[/quote]

Disagree. Brian Shury was the only right choice for the position and having a had a chance to hear him speak again at the road show and chat with him briefly, those LEC reps who chose to support a Westjetter with not much of a resume really fucked up.

Did you know he didn't even run for Vice President? The member from Air Transat who was elected stepped down in order to allow Captain Shury the opportunity to stay involved at a high level. No one expected him to lose the President position. The majority of all other ALPA carriers in Canada voted for him. Tim won only because two of our pilots let internal MEC disagreements get in the way of important National politics.
[/quote]

There sure is a lot of false information in your statement. First off, I’m sorry you have a problem with democracy. I guess you should move to another country where that won’t be a problem. Second, nobody from Transat was elected to a Canada Board position that day. Therefore, no Transat pilot “stepped down” from any role in the Canada Board. There wasn’t even anyone running for the VP position until Brian put his name forward. There was a Transat candidate that was going to step forward if Brian won, but that didn’t happen.

I have enormous respect for all of the Jazz pilots that were representing the Canada Board for years, but the votes were not there for them. Even some of your Jazz reps agreed, a change needed to happen, but now everybody from the monarchy is butt hurt about the whole thing.

There seems to be a real devide among the Jazz union. Maybe a big change needs to happen there too...
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rudder
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by rudder » Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:55 am

With yesterday’s ratification result, GGN will be relegated to a 3 B1900 Express fleet out of YYC. And even that will only be at the leisure of AC.

Perhaps AC will permit GGN to bid on <51 seat prop flying. Time will tell.

The GGN pilots have the option of using their DOH to fill vacancies at Jazz. And they get full credit for service. All without an operational merger having occurred. They have the opportunity to join a stable, experienced, respectful, professional Part 705 airline.

Choose wisely.
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V1Vr
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by V1Vr » Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:59 am

Dizzy D wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:45 am
V1Vr wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:06 pm
[quote="Dizzy D" post_id=<a href="tel:1067785">1067785</a> time=<a href="tel:1548982493">1548982493</a> user_id=38954]
We had a great chance to have solid Jazz fella in charge of Alpa Canada but two LEC Representatives at Jazz felt a Westjet pilot who has his application in at AC was a better choice.
It was definitely time for change at the Canada Board.
Disagree. Brian Shury was the only right choice for the position and having a had a chance to hear him speak again at the road show and chat with him briefly, those LEC reps who chose to support a Westjetter with not much of a resume really fucked up.

Did you know he didn't even run for Vice President? The member from Air Transat who was elected stepped down in order to allow Captain Shury the opportunity to stay involved at a high level. No one expected him to lose the President position. The majority of all other ALPA carriers in Canada voted for him. Tim won only because two of our pilots let internal MEC disagreements get in the way of important National politics.
[/quote]

There sure is a lot of false information in your statement. First off, I’m sorry you have a problem with democracy. I guess you should move to another country where that won’t be a problem. Second, nobody from Transat was elected to a Canada Board position that day. Therefore, no Transat pilot “stepped down” from any role in the Canada Board. There wasn’t even anyone running for the VP position until Brian put his name forward. There was a Transat candidate that was going to step forward if Brian won, but that didn’t happen.

I have enormous respect for all of the Jazz pilots that were representing the Canada Board for years, but the votes were not there for them. Even some of your Jazz reps agreed, a change needed to happen, but now everybody from the monarchy is butt hurt about the whole thing.

There seems to be a real devide among the Jazz union. Maybe a big change needs to happen there too...
[/quote]

I stand corrected with the AT part. It's been a while solve I heard about it and scraping my brain I believe you are correct.
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Jettime3
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by Jettime3 » Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:57 pm

:|
rudder wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:55 am
With yesterday’s ratification result, GGN will be relegated to a 3 B1900 Express fleet out of YYC. And even that will only be at the leisure of AC.

Perhaps AC will permit GGN to bid on <51 seat prop flying. Time will tell.

The GGN pilots have the option of using their DOH to fill vacancies at Jazz. And they get full credit for service. All without an operational merger having occurred. They have the opportunity to join a stable, experienced, respectful, professional Part 705 airline.

Choose wisely.
This is the chart GGN issued
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V1Vr
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by V1Vr » Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:09 pm

For fucks sake.

PEOPLE. PUT YOUR NAME ON THE LIST.

Don't care who/where you are in the hiring process at AC. Unless you have a bona-fide OFFER from AC to come over, do not miss your chance to come to Jazz with your seniority.

DO NOT LISTEN TO YOUR MANAGEMENT THEY ARE TERRIFIED THEY WON'T HAVE ANY PILOTS IN ONE YEAR WHEN THE TRANSITION IS DONE.

There is only ONE chance to put your name on the list. Only ONE. You can't "wait" to see if AC calls in the next few weeks. By then it will be TOO LATE.
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rudder
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by rudder » Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:37 pm

Hopefully AC will move the CRJ’s from GGN to Jazz at a high rate. 2 per month and the whole exercise is complete in 6 months (May-October).
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V1Vr
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by V1Vr » Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:44 pm

rudder wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:37 pm
Hopefully AC will move the CRJ’s from GGN to Jazz at a high rate. 2 per month and the whole exercise is complete in 6 months (May-October).
Agreed.

Only issue I think is how fast our MX can get the planes up to Jazz standard.
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Bornaflyer
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by Bornaflyer » Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:16 pm

It is ludicrous to see that the airline would actually expect their pilots to believe one word of that "chart". Can anyone call BS? How does staying there give employees better employment opportunities! First off, there will be no Air Canada passes for all those who commute. Also, 90% hiring to AC versus 40% from OTS. This is a no brainer! What other Toronto companies would allow ggn to exploit their broken old crj100s. Apparently one is already flying around with taped up holes. That would fly well in war-torn South Sudan. Pilots, use your common sense. There is only one opportunity and that is now. Any future contracts have NO guarantee.
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proper
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Re: 17 year TA?

Post by proper » Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:59 am

Don't listen to the lies fellow GGN pilots!
Come over and live a quality of life and benefits you could only have dreamed of weeks ago.

Ggn management is dying and they desperately want to SCREW YOUR CAREER OVER!!! Contact your union chair!

You are a valued workforce and will have a 90% chance at AC hiring in order of seniority if you come to Jazz (guaranteed to come to Jazz).

Ggn management are rats on a sinking ship trying to plug the holes with their fat asses.

Think of it this way... What does it benefit a Jazz pilot trying to convince you of coming over? What does it benefit managerial slime trying to keep you there. If your name isn't on that list... The door closes forever.

Less than 20 GGN pilots currently have gnd school dates with AC. Those will be honoured. But please don't let GGN management contort that fact is saying "stay here and flow direct to Air Canada".

You can lead a healthy speedy steed to water.... You can throw someone a life raft...

But I cannot make you choose. See through the lies.

I am wholeheartedly looking forward to fly with you GGN soon to be Jazz pilots. Immensely proud to have you aboard in what is a great step to pilot unity in this industry.


Proper
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