TA Passed.

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V1Vr
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TA Passed.

Post by V1Vr » Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:44 pm

92% eligible voters.
72% in favor.
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47north
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Re: TA Passed.

Post by 47north » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:04 pm

I am a bit surprised it wasn’t closer.

Great news indeed!
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V1Vr
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Re: TA Passed.

Post by V1Vr » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:06 pm

47north wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:04 pm
I am a bit surprised it wasn’t closer.

Great news indeed!
Goes to show that through all the noise, when the time comes to click that box people will always vote in favor of something that benefits them.
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HansDietrich
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Re: TA Passed.

Post by HansDietrich » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:08 pm

V1Vr wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:06 pm
47north wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:04 pm
I am a bit surprised it wasn’t closer.

Great news indeed!
Goes to show that through all the noise, when the time comes to click that box people will always vote in favor of something that benefits them.
People will vote for something that doesn't scare them... The unknown frightens the sh*t out of people.
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V1Vr
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Re: TA Passed.

Post by V1Vr » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:13 pm

HansDietrich wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:08 pm
V1Vr wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:06 pm
47north wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:04 pm
I am a bit surprised it wasn’t closer.

Great news indeed!
Goes to show that through all the noise, when the time comes to click that box people will always vote in favor of something that benefits them.
People will vote for something that doesn't scare them... The unknown frightens the sh*t out of people.
That also. I agree.
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V1Vr
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Re: TA Passed.

Post by V1Vr » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:16 pm

Quick math shows that if you factor that approx 955 pilots voted yes that's around 66% of the whole list. So still a majority, no one will be able to say that a minority of people made the decision.
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47north
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Re: TA Passed.

Post by 47north » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:20 pm

HansDietrich wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:08 pm
V1Vr wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:06 pm
47north wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:04 pm
I am a bit surprised it wasn’t closer.

Great news indeed!
Goes to show that through all the noise, when the time comes to click that box people will always vote in favor of something that benefits them.
People will vote for something that doesn't scare them... The unknown frightens the sh*t out of people.
Too bad you didn’t stick around Hans. You would have been better off in the long run.
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HansDietrich
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Re: TA Passed.

Post by HansDietrich » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:22 pm

V1Vr wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:16 pm
Quick math shows that if you factor that approx 955 pilots voted yes that's around 66% of the whole list. So still a majority, no one will be able to say that a minority of people made the decision.
I'd say the people that didn't vote were probably the ones close to retirement that would not be affected, either way. From the AVCANADA discussions, I understood that there is zero to little impact on the very senior Jazz pilots. Am I correct?
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V1Vr
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Re: TA Passed.

Post by V1Vr » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:26 pm

HansDietrich wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:22 pm
V1Vr wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:16 pm
Quick math shows that if you factor that approx 955 pilots voted yes that's around 66% of the whole list. So still a majority, no one will be able to say that a minority of people made the decision.
I'd say the people that didn't vote were probably the ones close to retirement that would not be affected, either way. From the AVCANADA discussions, I understood that there is zero to little impact on the very senior Jazz pilots. Am I correct?
Yup no effect. If anything only a small positive gain for those who want to get back to YYZ on the jet. Also no gains for anyone in the middle like you know the 40 year old that been here for 12 years or whatever other than the job security.
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HansDietrich
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Re: TA Passed.

Post by HansDietrich » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:28 pm

47north wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:20 pm
Too bad you didn’t stick around Hans. You would have been better off in the long run.
Maybe. I also regret not buying a house in Toronto when I first moved to Canada. I would have been $500K richer. I also regret not asking my classmate Helga to the high-school dance 20 years ago. She may have put out. You don't know these things. No matter how you spin it, new hires at Jazz make peanuts. It takes time to get to make anything significant. For an older guy like myself, I was just not willing to wait for it. I have bills to pay, kids to send to university (soon) and so on.

Only time will tell what will happen. I may end up regretting my decision, or be thankful I got out. Time will tell...

Good luck everyone at Jazz. The best thing about this is that you have voted with a pretty strong voice. I hope everyone gets what they want out of it.
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Gonzodriver
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Re: TA Passed.

Post by Gonzodriver » Thu Jan 31, 2019 6:59 pm

So what does the new pay scale look like for the first few years as an FO ?
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V1Vr
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Re: TA Passed.

Post by V1Vr » Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:17 pm

Gonzodriver wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 6:59 pm
So what does the new pay scale look like for the first few years as an FO ?
July 2019 FO

$40.00
$42.50
$44.00
$45.50
$53.00
$61.00
$73.22
$75.04
$76.92
$78.86
$80.80
$82.83

July 2019 CA

$80.00
$82.50
$86.50
$89.00
$93.00
$101.03
$103.56
$106.15
$108.80
$111.52
$114.31
$117.18
$120.11
$123.10
$126.19
$129.35
$132.58

Bottom and Top rate FO in 2035
$54.95
$113.71

Bottom and Top rate CA in 2035
$109.81
$186.57

YOS FO Credit for CA
3 -> 1
4 -> 2
5 -> 3
6 -> 4
7 -> 5
8 -> 6

If unable to hold CA after 8 years you accrue an additional 2 years to a maximum of 8 YOS carry over to CA as a year 10 FO.
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V1Vr
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Re: TA Passed.

Post by V1Vr » Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:29 pm

Other tidbits...

1/2 flight time credit for DH .. finally
1 hour in your time bank for sits over 3.5 hours

And the big one, 60% min hiring of all AC classes.
Max turn down rate of %10 on an annual basis.
Minimum qualifications, 2000hr and ATPL. This looks like it can change but at no time will it be more than what the OTS posting requires.
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daedalusx
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Re: TA Passed.

Post by daedalusx » Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:33 pm

It’s great. Now a 4yr FO in 2022 will make what a year 1 FO was making in 2015.
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In twenty years time when your kids ask how you got into flying you want to be able to say "work and determination" not "I just kept taking money from your grandparents for type ratings until someone was stupid enough to give me a job"

V1Vr
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Re: TA Passed.

Post by V1Vr » Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:36 pm

daedalusx wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:33 pm
It’s great. Now a 4yr FO in 2022 will make what a year 1 FO was making in 2015.
A year 4 FO in 2022 will be $48.29.
A year 1 FO in 2015 was $44.13

The difference is the year 1 FOs now and in 2022 are mostly sub 1000 hour pilots and direct from college 250 hour 22 year olds.

In 2015 and before those year 1 FOs were 4000 hour 704 Captains.

The world changed. I lived on less and while the first few years sucked I'm father ahead now than any of those pre 2015 pilots ever were 3 years into their Jazz career.
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Last edited by V1Vr on Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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daedalusx
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Re: TA Passed.

Post by daedalusx » Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:42 pm

Inflation is your 2% right there friends.

Look I’m happy for you guys and your now almost guaranteed AC job. I’m still disgusted that this job who used to be a great career job now is just a step up from flight college into AC.

But those are only symptoms of the problems. Pay will come up when the experience required to operated a 705 AC will match our brothers and sisters down south.

Cut the cadets, cut the PICUS, set a ATPL plus 1500hr requirement and the salaries will follow.

Sincerely wish the best for the Jazz groups. Hope your AC flow will come quick because this FO pay is obscene.
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In twenty years time when your kids ask how you got into flying you want to be able to say "work and determination" not "I just kept taking money from your grandparents for type ratings until someone was stupid enough to give me a job"

V1Vr
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Re: TA Passed.

Post by V1Vr » Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:45 pm

daedalusx wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:42 pm
Inflation is your 2% right there friends.

Look I’m happy for you guys and your now almost guaranteed AC job. I’m still disgusted that this job who used to be a great career job now is just a step up from flight college into AC.

But those are only symptoms of the problems. Pay will come up when the experience required to operated a 705 AC will match our brothers and sisters down south.

Cut the cadets, cut the PICUS, set a ATPL plus 1500hr requirement and the salaries will follow.

Sincerely wish the best for the Jazz groups. Hope your AC flow will come quick because this FO pay is obscene.
I agree. But the later years are fixed now for people who stay at Jazz. If we have an issue with hiring and the USA wants Canadians to have 1500 hours we'll have a chance to fix the first few years
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Gonzodriver
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Re: TA Passed.

Post by Gonzodriver » Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:26 pm

V1Vr wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:17 pm
Gonzodriver wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 6:59 pm
So what does the new pay scale look like for the first few years as an FO ?
July 2019 FO

$40.00
$42.50
$44.00
$45.50
$53.00
$61.00
$73.22
$75.04
$76.92
$78.86
$80.80
$82.83

July 2019 CA

$80.00
$82.50
$86.50
$89.00
$93.00
$101.03
$103.56
$106.15
$108.80
$111.52
$114.31
$117.18
$120.11
$123.10
$126.19
$129.35
$132.58

Bottom and Top rate FO in 2035
$54.95
$113.71

Bottom and Top rate CA in 2035
$109.81
$186.57

YOS FO Credit for CA
3 -> 1
4 -> 2
5 -> 3
6 -> 4
7 -> 5
8 -> 6

If unable to hold CA after 8 years you accrue an additional 2 years to a maximum of 8 YOS carry over to CA as a year 10 FO.
Is there a guaranteed monthly hours once your holding a block? Just trying to do the math to see what your annual salary would be.

Also is there a minimum amount of time at Jazz before applying to AC?
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V1Vr
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Re: TA Passed.

Post by V1Vr » Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:32 pm

Gonzodriver wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:26 pm
V1Vr wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:17 pm
Gonzodriver wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 6:59 pm
So what does the new pay scale look like for the first few years as an FO ?
July 2019 FO

$40.00
$42.50
$44.00
$45.50
$53.00
$61.00
$73.22
$75.04
$76.92
$78.86
$80.80
$82.83

July 2019 CA

$80.00
$82.50
$86.50
$89.00
$93.00
$101.03
$103.56
$106.15
$108.80
$111.52
$114.31
$117.18
$120.11
$123.10
$126.19
$129.35
$132.58

Bottom and Top rate FO in 2035
$54.95
$113.71

Bottom and Top rate CA in 2035
$109.81
$186.57

YOS FO Credit for CA
3 -> 1
4 -> 2
5 -> 3
6 -> 4
7 -> 5
8 -> 6

If unable to hold CA after 8 years you accrue an additional 2 years to a maximum of 8 YOS carry over to CA as a year 10 FO.
Is there a guaranteed monthly hours once your holding a block? Just trying to do the math to see what your annual salary would be.

Also is there a minimum amount of time at Jazz before applying to AC?
MMG is 77.5 I think... I haven't been that low in over two years. Reserve is middle of the blocking window and usually never lower than 80 garunteed credits a month. Line holder I usually get low 80s.

There used to be a two year minimum at Express, however now it's just going to be in seniority as long as you have an ATPL and 2000 hours and the list gets down to your name there is no time requirement to be at Jazz.
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av8ts
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Re: TA Passed.

Post by av8ts » Fri Feb 01, 2019 6:53 am

HansDietrich wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:22 pm
V1Vr wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:16 pm
Quick math shows that if you factor that approx 955 pilots voted yes that's around 66% of the whole list. So still a majority, no one will be able to say that a minority of people made the decision.
I'd say the people that didn't vote were probably the ones close to retirement that would not be affected, either way. From the AVCANADA discussions, I understood that there is zero to little impact on the very senior Jazz pilots. Am I correct?
Not quite true. Retired Jazz employees only keep their lifetime AC travel passes as long as Jazz has a CPA with AC. This ensures passes till at least 2035
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bearitus
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Re: TA Passed.

Post by bearitus » Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:25 am

With this new contract pay I still won't be able to support my family in YYZ and will need to continue working part time to supplement my income. I really hope upgrade times speed up though.
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daedalusx
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Re: TA Passed.

Post by daedalusx » Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:53 am

Have anyone decided what they're going to do with the 1200$?

I think I will invest in 10 of those 27 lbs Costco Mac and Cheese buckets and leave 1 bucket in the crew room. Any FOs passing through YYC will be fed like a king on my own dime. No more FOs having to decide between feeding themselves and frivolous expense such as baby formula. It has a 20 year shelf life which is about the length of the new contract. Pay it forward people, onward and upward!

Image
Elbow Pasta: 180 Servings
Cheddar Cheese Sauce: 180 Servings
6, 30 serving zip-sealed pouches of Cheddar Sauce Mix
6, 30 serving zip-sealed pouches of Elbow Macaroni Pasta
Easy to open zip-seal Metalite™ pouches
The Cheese and Pasta are packaged in separate bulk Metalite™ pouches with oxygen absorbers, to protect the quality and ensure a long shelf life
Heavy Duty 6-gallon bucket with gamma lid (Transportable & Stackable)
Net Wt. 23 lb 6 oz
Total Wt. 26 lb 10 oz
Shelf Life - Up to 20 years - if stored in a dry, cool environment
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In twenty years time when your kids ask how you got into flying you want to be able to say "work and determination" not "I just kept taking money from your grandparents for type ratings until someone was stupid enough to give me a job"

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LtDan
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Re: TA Passed.

Post by LtDan » Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:57 am

av8ts wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 6:53 am
HansDietrich wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:22 pm
V1Vr wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:16 pm
Quick math shows that if you factor that approx 955 pilots voted yes that's around 66% of the whole list. So still a majority, no one will be able to say that a minority of people made the decision.
I'd say the people that didn't vote were probably the ones close to retirement that would not be affected, either way. From the AVCANADA discussions, I understood that there is zero to little impact on the very senior Jazz pilots. Am I correct?
Not quite true. Retired Jazz employees only keep their lifetime AC travel passes as long as Jazz has a CPA with AC. This ensures passes till at least 2035
Not true, so long as the day you retire the CPA is still current, you are set for life.. ie retire Feb 1 2019 and the CPA expires Feb 2 2019, you are good to go my friend. Thats all based on the years of service formula to be eligible in the first place of course. Also for the more senior folk, DB pension is secure until at least 2035 now.
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snowcone
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Re: TA Passed.

Post by snowcone » Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:59 am

Someone should call Guinness. 17 contract must be a world record. Sorry to hear Jazz newhires continue to be working poor.
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munzil
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Re: TA Passed.

Post by munzil » Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:26 am

snowcone wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:59 am
Someone should call Guinness. 17 contract must be a world record. Sorry to hear Jazz newhires continue to be working poor.
17 year contract? Seriously. I thought it was mostly Jazz pilots crapping on GGN pilots for lowering the industry just to better themselves.

Shows in the end we are happy to eat our young regardless.
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