TA Passed.

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JohnnyHotRocks
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Re: TA Passed.

Post by JohnnyHotRocks » Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:29 am

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av8ts
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Re: TA Passed.

Post by av8ts » Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:13 am

There is no pilot shortage in Canada. Companies up north are still asking pilots to work the ramp before flying. Jazz and AC have no problems filling groundschools. The pilots don’t have the hours or experience as past hires did, however there IS NO shortage of low time pilots looking for jobs in Canada
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truedude
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Re: TA Passed.

Post by truedude » Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:36 am

mmm..bacon wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:15 pm
post hoc. After the event
You are quite correct! My mistake.
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truedude
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Re: TA Passed.

Post by truedude » Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:37 am

mixturerich wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:56 am
JohnnyHotRocks wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:15 pm
You guys get too angry when someone disagrees
Well when someone calls all the Jazz pilots “scared,” it’s offensive and downright disrespectful.
Just the ones that voted in favour of the contract.
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flyzam
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Re: TA Passed.

Post by flyzam » Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:28 am

mixturerich wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:56 am
JohnnyHotRocks wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:15 pm
You guys get too angry when someone disagrees
Well when someone calls all the Jazz pilots “scared,” it’s offensive and downright disrespectful.
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mixturerich
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Re: TA Passed.

Post by mixturerich » Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:46 am

truedude wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:37 am
mixturerich wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:56 am
JohnnyHotRocks wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:15 pm
You guys get too angry when someone disagrees
Well when someone calls all the Jazz pilots “scared,” it’s offensive and downright disrespectful.
Just the ones that voted in favour of the contract.
That’s well over half the pilots, so you’re still an a**hole.
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Outlaw58
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Re: TA Passed.

Post by Outlaw58 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:54 am

av8ts wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:13 am
There is no pilot shortage in Canada. Companies up north are still asking pilots to work the ramp before flying. Jazz and AC have no problems filling groundschools. The pilots don’t have the hours or experience as past hires did, however there IS NO shortage of low time pilots looking for jobs in Canada
I said it many times in different threads. It is an "experience" shortage not pilot.

The industry has warned everyone of an impending shortage of pilot which should manifest itself by seeing empty seats in aircraft leading to flight cancellation. That is not the case because those seats are filled with pilots with a decreasing amount of overall experience.

An experience shortage is like playing Jenga. Once you've weakened your tower enough by removing experience and it comes crashing, good like rebuilding it. Colgan Air is a prime example of that and companies would be wise to re-evaluate whether or not they learned from that event.

58
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rudder
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Re: TA Passed.

Post by rudder » Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:59 am

Golden Rule:

Experience costs $$. No $$ = no experience
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C-GGGQ
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Re: TA Passed.

Post by C-GGGQ » Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:04 am

Unless you are hoping for returning expats though, you could double the pay across the board but the experience still won't be there. People won't stay at a 703 when they could go to jazz. Many won't stay at jazz when ac/Transat/ SW call. so you will still have an "experience shortage" which is just a fancy way of saying pilot shortage. Raising pay won't make more 3000hr pilots appear. The experienced guys are retiring and we haven't made enough pilots every year to replace them
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Outlaw58
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Re: TA Passed.

Post by Outlaw58 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:09 am

rudder wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:59 am
Golden Rule:

Experience costs $$. No $$ = no experience
Very true :)

Ever heard the saying: "If you think safety is expensive, you should try an accident!"

58
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mmm..bacon
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Re: TA Passed.

Post by mmm..bacon » Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:24 am

rudder wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:59 am
Golden Rule:

Experience costs $$. No $$ = no experience
Or, as an old AME friend of mine said more colourfully: “No bucks, no Buck Rogers!”
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Outlaw58
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Re: TA Passed.

Post by Outlaw58 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:30 am

C-GGGQ wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:04 am
Unless you are hoping for returning expats though, you could double the pay across the board but the experience still won't be there. People won't stay at a 703 when they could go to jazz. Many won't stay at jazz when ac/Transat/ SW call. so you will still have an "experience shortage" which is just a fancy way of saying pilot shortage. Raising pay won't make more 3000hr pilots appear. The experienced guys are retiring and we haven't made enough pilots every year to replace them
You're right, this will not be fixed with money. As long as companies will be able to fill their seats with low cost pilots (which is an extension of saying low experience pilots), they will do so since their business is making money. I don't fault them for that.

The way to correct the issue is 2-fold and I'll be dead long before I see it happen:

1) Unions: Unions need to realize that the seniority system is probably the #1 factor causing this travesty we see today. That system made sense back in the days when no one could dream of getting a seat in a 705 operation with less then 6-7k hours, it didn't matter how you filled the seats since the least experienced pilot far exceeded the requirement for the job.

The seniority system needs to be overhauled so that something akin to date of ATPL or something like that be recognize. It will have the side-benefit of having younger/less experience pilots "choosing" non-705 gigs where they would build experience knowing that if they joined the 705 too early, they would just sit in a low seniority state for too long / or be at peace knowing that their seniority would be recognized when the time to switch over to 705 came. I believe this is what the college of pilots was trying to achieve.

Not holding my breath on that cause I don't think it will ever happen.

2) Regulations: It happened before (Colgan Air) where some event will trigger a tightening of the rules but then again, the lobby is strong and regulations will always be way more permissive than they actually should.

My 2 cents,

58
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mmm..bacon
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Re: TA Passed.

Post by mmm..bacon » Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:54 am

Outlaw58 wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:30 am

The seniority system needs to be overhauled so that something akin to date of ATPL or something like that be recognize. It will have the side-benefit of having younger/less experience pilots "choosing" non-705 gigs where they would build experience knowing that if they joined the 705 too early, they would just sit in a low seniority state for too long / or be at peace knowing that their seniority would be recognized when the time to switch over to 705 came. I believe this is what the college of pilots was trying to achieve.

58
Bring it! There’s a 787 left seat somewhere with my name in it!
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